oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

CAPTKEV85

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Mar 12, 2008
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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

I had a the same prob on my fresh rebuild of my 470 merc. when i reved it or throttle up on a load oil would blow out of the tube. later i found it was a bad fuel pump filling the crankcase with fuel. recommend checkin fuel pump for internal leaking into crankase. if oil smells like gas thats ur prob.
 

JustJason

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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

KJSmitty said:
And that "elbow" is called the PCV valve..... I've got several boat tech manuals and all reference PCV valves. Both with pictures of "elbow" style and the "rattle" type as many would describe them.

I dunno much.... but i know an elbow is just an elbow. A valve.... wether its a pcv valve or an cylinder head valve... is something that opens and closes.

There's nothing that opens and closes in an elbow... hence.... its not a valve.

If I took a peice of copper tubing and bent it 90 degrees over my knee and stuck it in the valve cover... would that now be a pcv valve or just a really really ugly elbow?
I dunno what manuals you have.... but I have all the merc ones.

KJSmitty said:
This entire little debate started with me asking the question (of which has yet to be answered), "why shouldn't a boat have a PCV system or better yet a "valve" etc"?? Of course I knew the answer yet was being polite to see what the resident experts were so adamant about.

I know why... it's an EPA/emissions thing. We all know that oil fumes when heated, weather there's visible smoke or not. When the engine is running (automotive) intake vacuum draws the fumes in so they can be burnt and passed through the cat converter. When the engine is shut off the PCV valve closes and traps the fumes in the crankcase so they can not vent to open atmosphere.

Since EPA/emission standards are about 30 years behind on boats, boats never had them because there was no reason to. From a manufactors standpoint, why put in a $$3.00 pcv valve when a .25 cent elbow will do.

I know you keep talking about this chris craft you have. alot of the older boats don't even have an elbow. They just vent out the oil filler cap. The cap is open to atmosphere and stuffed with some "steel brillo pad" looking stuff... and that's it.
I know merc used the caps up unto the early 70's. I don't know the exact cutoff year. But FOR years that's all they had, and aside from some oil odors from time to time, they worked ok as long as you pulled the stuffing and cleaned them every once in a while.
 

mkast

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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

Definitely sounds like PCV issue. Is oil being forced out of the dipstick tube at all? - sounds like it's obviously coming from the valve cover breather/vent tube to flame arrestor. Check the PCV valve for proper operation (maybe attached to a poor vacuum source?). Obviously if the rings do have excessive blow-by the PCV process could be over-run etc..

Tell you what, you convince Mercruiser that it's maintenance and parts manuals should include a PVC system, then I'll go along with it.
 

KJSmitty

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

Tell you what, you convince Mercruiser that it's maintenance and parts manuals should include a PVC system, then I'll go along with it.

Look up MERCURY MARINE part #'s

21-806118
21-861476
21-806603
802748
13712

- Hint: all are Mercruiser PCV valves -that pretty much cover the Merc V8's and 6's for numerous yrs.

As I mentioned early on - a "valve", or for better clarification on my "regulating vacuum" comment - a device that restricts or regulates engine vacuum "loss", will be used if the PCV/CV system utilizes vacuum.
- If not attached to a vacuum source, no valve. Maybe that's the elbow you are describing captJason - because if it is just an elbow attached to a manifold vacuum source it couldn't be more wrong! Why, because the minute you had a back-fire/pop through the manifold/carb/throttle body it would force fuel/flammable vapors directly into the crankcase - the exact reason for the valve/"P" in PCV etc. Other than that you would have an extremely large vacuum leak sucking oil from your valve cover not to mention ruining your drivability.. :eek:

Now, I have seen and replaced black elbows (no rattle type), that part # etc. referenced: PCV valve. I believe they had a small orifice for restriction or plastic/rubber one way flap built in etc.. None however were on Merc's.

Seriously men, I'm with ya and truly apologize for this semi thread hijack.

I'm just waiting for Don-S or some other Mod to change my name to "PCV Nazi".

Happy boating
 

hard-3

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

vent the valve cover into a catch bottle and see how much oil is actually coming out the hose. a little oil looks like a barrel when it's sprayed all around . it might have low ring tension or an out of round cylinder bore. he stated in his post that one piston was replaced WHY? i've seen guys throw in a set of rings and never hone or deglaze the cylinders. they wondered why it blew oil out also. I once saw an old mechanic shake boraxo in the carb while it ran to help rings seat I questioned him and he said it had worked for him for years. it gave some abrasive to deglaze the cylinder walls. As for the crankcase ventilation argument, if there were no ventilation you could not keep oil in it it would blow out of every gasket . all crankcases in modern engines have positive pressure. the reason for PCV valves are to meet EPA emisions standards only. The act of putting oil into the intake charge only messes up the homoginization of the intake charge. Thats why pro stock drag guys run vacuum pumps on the block, to keep pressure evacuated from the engine. Up until recently when the EPA regs got sticky there were no ventilation systems on diesel truck engine ,only road draft tubes and drain tubes
 

JustJason

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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

KJSmitty said:
As I mentioned early on - a "valve", or for better clarification on my "regulating vacuum" comment - a device that restricts or regulates engine vacuum "loss", will be used if the PCV/CV system utilizes vacuum.

Whaaaaaa???? what the heck does all that even mean?????

KJSmitty said:
If not attached to a vacuum source, no valve. Maybe that's the elbow you are describing captJason - because if it is just an elbow attached to a manifold vacuum source it couldn't be more wrong! Why, because the minute you had a back-fire/pop through the manifold/carb/throttle body it would force fuel/flammable vapors directly into the crankcase - Other than that you would have an extremely large vacuum leak sucking oil from your valve cover not to mention ruining your drivability..

What the heck are you talking about there too??? do you mean automotive or marine in that statement?
In automotive, the pvc line is usually plumbed in somewhere after the air filter but before the throttle plate. the engine doesn't care if the hose is hooked up or not. It's not metered air. So it doesn't matter. and it's done that way, because the EPA nazi's says it has to be. End of story.

Now in marine, It doesn't HAVE to be that way. So for the most part it's not.
The crankcase only needs to be vented to atmosphere, and that's it.
It does not have to be hooked up to a vacuum source or anything else.
It is vented to the carb body to help cut down on oil odors.

KJSmitty said:
Why, because the minute you had a back-fire/pop through the manifold/carb/throttle body it would force fuel/flammable vapors directly into the crankcase - the exact reason for the valve/"P" in PCV etc.

Again I have no idea what your trying to say here. But......
The check valve in a PCV valve is a 1 way valve. Put enough pressure under it OR enough vacuum in front of it and the valve opens. (or some combination of the 2) The reason why it is called a POSITIVE crankcase vent valve is because crankcases make POSITIVE pressure.... always.
Has nothing to do with the actual piece of plastic itself.

Think if it this way. If an engine is off (doesn't matter if its a weedwacker here, as long as where talking 4 stroke)

There is 14.6 psi of air in every part of that engine. There's 14.6psi in the intake and exhaust manifolds, there's 14.6psi in all the cylinders, and there's 14.6 psi in the crankcase.
When the engine runs. Air pressure goes down in the intake manifold. And we measure the phenomenon of high pressure rushing in to fill the low pressure event as "vacuum". There's still air pressure in there, but it is less than 14.6psi. Its often said that its negative pressure or vacuum, but that is not the case. There is pressure, just less than 14.6psi.

Now on to the crankcase. when the engine sits, we already said there is 14.6psi in it.
Now when the engine runs, there is still going to be 14.6psi PLUS whatever is added to that by blowby. you may have .5 psi of total blowby every stroke, so that would make your crankcase pressure 15.1psi. Since Hi goes to low, the POSITIVE crankcase pressure escapes under its own power to the LOWER pressure atmosphere because the pressure in the crankcase WANTS to equilize.
Valve or no valve it doesn't matter. There only NEEDS to be a hole.
Whatever else is in that hole is because some epa nazi or some whiney customer who doesn't like the smell of oil complained enough.
I think your overthinking this.
Jason.
 

KJSmitty

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

Bubba1235 - I agree, both to your causal factors and to the "Sheesh - who gives a crap" comment..

mkast - again, you're killing me... :D

captJason - Best of luck.
EPA concerns sure, research a few early 70's Coast Guard rulings and you will find why boats have PCV systems - safety. But then again you probably wont comprehend that either, or would argue it's legitimacy.
It truly doesn't matter whether marine or automotive, BOTH applications will have a PCV system, that's a fact... I'm tired of nicely trying to describe a very typical setup. I would say "end of story" but I feel even with my efforts to depart this engine 101 teaching opportunity it will continue, (but not by me).
Hopefully the mods and other forum members will accept the above candor and realize what I have been articulating.

As always however.

Take care and happy boating!
 

KJSmitty

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

Attacking others (Don) is a very good way to get banned. Carry on...


Who's attacking??

That was humor focused at myself over my PCV discussion..

If you didn't see that then my above will really hurt your feelings. Not that that is my direction at all. A little candor is seen in every forum. Most usually over a few not understanding what the other is describing - which is obviously the case with this discussion. Hence my removal from it to save peace.

Cheers
 

JustJason

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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

KJSmitty said:
research a few early 70's Coast Guard rulings and you will find why boats have PCV systems - safety.

Hmmm.... since your confident you know about this... could you kindly point me in the right direction as to these rulings?
I just want to educate myself incase I am mistaken. :D
 

mkast

Lieutenant Commander
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Messages
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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...&bnbr=60&bdesc=CARBURETOR+AND+AUTOMATIC+CHOKE

Item #22 CONNECTOR, VENT HOSE TO ROCKER COVER
I bolted this engine (MIE 330) into a charter fishing boat in 1979 from the crate from Mercruiser. I now own this engine.
This item is hollow. No spring, no disc, no rattling when you shake it, nothing.
It's a connector that's all.
Looks just like a PCV valve, but if it's hollow...
 

Kessi

Cadet
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Jun 25, 2008
Messages
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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

This is quite hilarious to me.
Not long ago I asked the same kind of question and received very few responses.
My question was as to the straight "venting" of the valve cover and the discharge of excessive oil into the engine compartment.
To address the main question, after the initial break in period the amount of oil being discharged reduced significantly. To further reduce the problem I added the vent elbow (note I say added because my boat did not come with one) and placed the oil capturing mesh (as noted in a previous post used on older direct vent to atmosphere motors) inside it.
I added the mesh since I couldn't find any reference to an internal oil baffle anywhere for my 3L.
 

hard-3

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Messages
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Re: oil leak/oil dripping from carburator, MCM 140

having worked for years on all types of off-road equipment, there has always been the problem of blow-by . detroit diesels are notorious for doing this and make quite a mess from the puke tubes. I have seen every thing from baby diapers to 5 gal buckets used to collect the oil blown out of the engine. Best advise is to get a big soup can and a piece of steel wool and make your self a catch can intil this thing seats the rings. If it keeps blowing oil out SOMETHING IS WRONG. Find out why it has so much crankcase pressure. if it's blowing out in a stream of oil there is something wrong. piston rings should seat in a few hours , if they don't , there is something wrong. You can guess at things all day long -but the only way to know for sure is to pull it back apart and look and see. My calibrated guess is all the ring gaps are lined up and compression is blowing past oil controll rings or a broken ring during overhaul. As stated in my earlier post why was 1 piston replaced? What condition was this cylinder bore ? pcv valve or not if it's building up massive crankase pressure SOMETHING IS WRONG
 
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