Won't rev past 2500

bman1bpm

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well I finally got my tach installed so now I can put numbers to my post. Motor is a 79 chrysler 140. Starts and idle's great, runs great till about 2500 rpms then it sounds like its not running on all cylinders. good compression, clean carbs, replaced all fuel lines and hose clamps.
 

jerryjerry05

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

Whats comp? Do a spark test.Then replace fuel line and squeezie.Then rebuild fuel pump.Jerry
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

comp is 140 on all 4. Already has a new squeezy and lines.

how should I test spark? at idle in the driveway or out in the water?
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

any other info on this? I've got spark on all 4 cylinders at idle, plugs tend to foul easily though. I have to clean them after every 3 or 4 times out.
 

kandil

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

it could be carb adjustment or bad reeds good luck finding the problem
PS
you need to have a leak test comp test is not good enough
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

What size boat and what size prop? The Chrysler 140 in stock form was not 140, had a high lower unit gear ratio, and can easily be overpropped.

Secondly, Top cylinder is #1. You should have two fuel pumps in series--first one on bypass cover #3 feeding the second one on bypass cover #2. The 140 is a thirsty engine and it takes two pumps to adequately supply those massive carbs. (should be TC5E with .096 jets) If either fuel pump is not performing at peak delivery, the top speed will suffer. NOTE: Since both carbs run lean in this circumstance, the engine loses power on all cylinders and there is less danger of detonation than if only one carb runs lean--but the danger is still there. So: If the engine flattens out when you hit the throttle, back off right away. Replace BOTH diaphragms and both of the gaskets. See if that doesn't help. Correct installation is: Diaphragm goes against the removable pump part and the gasket goes on top of the diaphragm. then the whole thing is screwed to the bypass cover.

EDIT--Additional thought--Remove and clean both screens from the black plastic fuel inlet covers on both pumps. Only replace the screen on the first pump (#3 bypass). Reasoning: Anything that gets through the first screen will also get through the second. The second screen does nothing but add resistance to fuel flow. Oh, Yeah: If your engine has alot of hours on it, run a pipe cleaner through the large circle diaphragm pressure/vacuum actuating hole to be certain it is not clogged. It is a hole about 3/16 diameter in the bypass cover right about center of the large portion of the diaphragm.

And as a precaution, to prevent crap from the pumps from getting into and clogging the carbs, put a cheap 3 buck plastic fuel filter between the final pump and the carbs. This will help to prevent a lean run on one carb, resulting detonation, and melted pistons. 3 bucks save about a thousand. That's a deal!

Want to see something dramatic? With the carb covers off, have someone nail the throttle while you look into the carbs--Surprising the amount of fuel delivered, isn't it?

BTW: That diaphragm and gasket was the same part for all engines up to at least Force 1990 so ask for the diaphragm for a 1990 Force 125 at your Merc Dealer--they will not have records for a 79 Chrysler and will just tell you they can't get it.

Be certain the timing is at 32 or 30 degrees advanced at full throttle. Late or advanced timing can reduce performance. Your engine was timed at 32 but later engines were reduced to 30 so either is acceptable.

Later, when you get the engine performing up to snuff, you can switch the oil recirculation nipples from the bypass covers to the manifolds. The extra oil on the reeds promotes better sealing and you should gain a few hundred RPM and a couple of MPH at top end. Come back then and I will fully describe the modification and both positive and negative consequences.

BTW: That's MY 78-79 Chrysler 140 in the avatar. turns a 13 X 19 cupped stainless Michigan prop at 5000 with 38 MPH top speed GPS on a 21 foot Manatee cuddy. --But I re-worked it.
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

Alright frank we're gonna get this thing running like it should this season.
It really does run great from idle to 2500 rpm starts every time too. It suits my purposes, but I'd like to have it humming along at 5000 rpm.

I plan to replace the fuel pump diaphragms and also check out the timing, I haven't yet. Does this procedure make sense to you guys?
http://www.themarinedoctor.com/cgi-bin//YaBB.pl?num=1186183867

I'm pretty sure my bottom carb is in need of replacement, no matter how I adjust the float it floods.
 

kandil

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

if it is flooding you have a worn out needle valve.
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

the needles appeart to be in good shape, I think the problem is that the seat is pressed into the body of the carb and I cannot replace it.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

That's just about the way to go, but he doesn't tell you that the ignition key must be on in the run position AND___Remove all four sparkplugs to ensure that the engine doesn't try to fire as you turn the flywheel by hand.

The needle seats in those carbs are pressed in and can be replaced. I don't know where to buy them because I have been lucky.

Anyway, remove the needle and thread in an appropriate sized self-tapping screw. Then pry out the seat. BEFORE you do that though, check to be certain that the seat is pressed fully against the aluminum casting. If it is not, the actual rubber seat will not be properly compressed and will not seal the needle.

AHHH! in the first post you did not mention that you had a flooding problem. That small piece of info is important. Take care of the flooding problem before you try the other repairs. A rich running engine will not make its full power.

See? That's why it's so difficult to diagnose on line.
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

It is difficult to do stuff online, I wanted to put a video of how my boat runs up, it would make describing the condition much easier, But I never got to it.

If the seat is not fully pressed into the casing should I just press it back into place?
The carb kit I ordered from iboats came with a new needle and seat but the seat was the screw in type.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

The smaller WB carbs had a screw-in seat, but I don't think I have ever seen a TC carb with them--doesn't mean they didn't make them though. You will just need to look closely.

If the seat is not pressed into the casting fully (or screwed in) then the first thing to try is to fully seat it against the casting. Then be certain you have a gasket on both the inside AND outside of the fuel bowl. The inside one seals the high speed jet from leakage. If the gasket is missing or if the casting is cracked:

A venturri always gets richer as airflow volume through it increases. The high speed jet LIMITS the fuel delivery at full throttle and keeps the engine from going rich. SO: if the dip tube passage is not sealed by the inside gasket to allow fuel flow ONLY through the jet, at full throttle and at partial throttle where the main venturi has enough depression to atomize fuel, the engine MAY run rich. This varies with engines but will usually occur at somewhere around 2500 RPM. Hmmm! Starting to see something? Below that, only the low speed circuit is delivering fuel and the engine will run great. Double check that the Jets are not loose, worn, or damaged and delivering more fuel than they should. They should be .096 inch orifice. It is stamped into the top of the jet. If your eyes are not good you may need a magnifying glass.

If you absolutely can not fix your carbs, PM me: I may have a couple extra.
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

I know for a fact that one of my carbs....probably the one with the flooding, that I've only got a gasket on the outside. Would this gasket cause it to flood at idle as well? When I pump the primer bulb a pretty steady stream of fuel pours out of the bottom carb's throttle bore.

The rebuild kit only came with one so I thought thats all it needed. Can I just hand cut one out of bulk paper gasket material?
I remember the jets being in good shape when I cleaned the carbs last winter, not sure what size the jets are though.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

NO! If the outside gasket is missing gasoline drips from the bottom of the bowl--maybe. If the nut is loose, gas leaks out and the engine is a bear to start. Once started, it runs fine because the pump can supply more than is dripping out. Stop the engine and the bowl goes empty and the engine is difficult to start again. This is the scenario on a single carb engine--on multiple carbs with only one leaking, the other one or two will start the engine.

Yeah! if gas pours out when you squeeze the primer bulb, that usually means a bad needle or seat OR possibly a gas-soaked float that will not "float" Thus, when you continue to squeeze the primer, you raise the level in the bowl to above the venturi dip tube and gas goes out the carb.

AND, You still have not told us what size boat and prop you have.

DON"T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE! LOL
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

your "Yeah!" situation is what I've got goin. It always starts right up for me. when Its running with the muffs on at idle, I get a drip of fuel out of the bottom carb probably 1 drip every 10-20 seconds. Its comming out of the venturi dip tube just like you said.

You got me with a pile of new information and I forgot all bout the prop and boat size. Its a 1964 17'6" fiberglass crestliner boat. Not sure on the weight orignal sales brochure says it has a dry weight of 975 lbs plus motor and gear.
140 is a lot of power for this boat, my 2500 rpms get it goin 20-25mph

Pretty sure the prop is a 13x19 aluminum, hadn't considered changing it yet because from what I know I can't see the prop causing ~2000 rpms lower than what WOT should be, but you're the resident expert here!

I can't think up any other information that might be important sorry you keep having to ask for it!
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

OK. So we can eliminate the prop as a cause. 13 X 19 on a boat that size is correct or close to it. I would expect top RPM to be within operating range.

So, that leaves the bottom carb as a supicious cause of the problem. So, pay attention to it as outlined above, then when it is correct, turn your attention to the fuel pumps.
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

Alright sounds like a plan. I'll be working on the carb in the next few weeks. I'm going to go ahead and replace the fuel pumps too, they're cheap. I know it was done by the previous owner, probabaly 4 years ago. They seem to pump well though, but that little hole you were talking about might be plugged.
Probably won't get a water test till spring unless theres a warm day this winter.
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

Turns out my bottom carb(the troubled one) is a TC5D, not a TC5E like the top! Going to pick up some used units tomorrow, fairwinds marina here in maryland said they have a pair in stock.
 

bman1bpm

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Re: Won't rev past 2500

Got my replacement carb all cleaned up and installed, also replaced the fuel pump diaphragms, old ones were in decent shape.

Need to work on doing away with the quick disconnect fuel connector on the motor, I noticed it leaking while I was winterizing.

Currently working on a much needed lower unit reseal, my drain plug was stuck in place, drilled it out and drained the oil..found water. if the unit was held upside down oil drained right out of the drive shaft seal, the old one was in poor shape.
 

bman1bpm

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Problem solved?

Problem solved?

Maybe these wires were also leading to my problem? The one in worse shape is the blue wire leading to my CD box, it had been running under the flywheel. The other wire in not as bad shape is the blue wire going to my distributor.

Now, once I get my trim pump back on we're going for a test ride :)
 

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