I/O Break-In Periods

[jacknbella]

OK, I'm an engineer and I am somewhat familar (enough to be dangerous) with internal combustion engines so I'm wondering why there is a 10-20 hour break-in requirement for I/O's? Automotive engines don't necessarily require them but most marine engines do. Removing metal shavings and other foreign material does not seem to be as big a concern with autmotive, even though, they recommend changing the oil every 3K miles. I'm pretty sure each marine engine manufacturer tests their engines on a dyno for performance and emission calculations, but why have an additional short break-in period as well? To make matters worse, most dealers say the first major oil change is NOT covered under warranty and I've heard it can cost $150-$500 depending on the dealer. In the "rational" world, it would make sense to have the manufacturer cover this expense??? Right???

Please, please, someone out there must have a better understanding of this issue for which they would be willing to share with the forum???!!!

 

[MikDee]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

OK, I'm an engineer and I am somewhat familar (enough to be dangerous) with internal combustion engines so I'm wondering why there is a 10-20 hour break-in requirement for I/O's? Automotive engines don't necessarily require them but most marine engines do. Removing metal shavings and other foreign material does not seem to be as big a concern with autmotive, even though, they recommend changing the oil every 3K miles. I'm pretty sure each marine engine manufacturer tests their engines on a dyno for performance and emission calculations, but why have an additional short break-in period as well? To make matters worse, most dealers say the first major oil change is NOT covered under warranty and I've heard it can cost $150-$500 depending on the dealer. In the "rational" world, it would make sense to have the manufacturer cover this expense??? Right???

Please, please, someone out there must have a better understanding of this issue for which they would be willing to share with the forum???!!!

I'm not trying to rock your boat, but as an engineer you should know it takes 10-20hrs at 50mph max = 500 to 1000 miles break in, as usually recommended on a new car, I know, I know, nowadays they say that's not necessary, but I'm old school, & like my vehicles to last, so I adhere to the old rules.

An oil change on a boat, is a bit more work then on a car, but not $150-500 worth! You can't just drop the drain plug usually, you have to pump the oil out the dipstick when the engine is hot, and the filters are a bit harder to get at, now that you are so informed, you need to have a sit down with the dealer, and persuade them to provide some better customer service, hope this helps. Mike

 

[AZMinyard]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

Check the owner?s manual. The manual that came with mine recommends changing the oil after the first 5-8 hrs of operation and then every 25-50 hrs after that. They also recommend changing the gear oil every season.

Not sure why oil change would be so expensive. I've encountered few things as easy as changing the oil on an outboard. Warm engine. Take off cap, open plug, and drain oil. Replace plug, fill oil. Take used oil to auto parts or oil change place. Repeat as necessary.

As to the necessity - good question. From what I understand the initial outboard period insures that the parts establish a pattern and that everything is properly lubed. As the parts initially wear together, some debris can be created - it is a safeguard against "good-enough engineering" where there are tolerances in part manufacture rather than exacting measures. At any rate, if it is recommended by the manufacturer I would do it.

As always, I could be way off here.

 

[MikDee]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

Just a note here, the orig. poster was referring to I/O's, not outboards, but thanks for the post anyway.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

break in period has a lot to do with the engine build specifications / final machining tolerances, and surfaces... most professional engine builders will tell you that once you've seated the rings, and that if cylinders ar correctly honed, that'll happen in minutes, you're broken in (unless flat tappet camshaft, then you need 20 min or so at 2000 2500 rpms right at the beginning), change the oil and run the snot out of it. as manufacturing tolerance get tighter and production methods get more precise, there is less wearing in of imperfections that needs to take place... and so less careful breakin needs to be followed - in general of course...

for mass produced engines, the manufacturers instructions are designed to give the lowest chance of short or long term failure... just follow what they say and be safe.

in terms of paying for the first oil change, it makes sense to have the dealer cover it, but then again, that part is all about who pays for it. No matter whether you pay the dealer for it,or he charges more, you've going to pay for it... same goes if the manufacturer pays for it...

 

[jacknbella]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

Mikdee, wow! I've been an engineer for over 18 years and even obtained my masters degree but nowhere did I hear that 500 "boat" miles equals 1000 "car" miles. Please provide data to prove this. Even though it may be true and you might actually have some data to prove it, you claiming an engineer "should" know this is not a fair thing to say. What is your occupation so I can dispute something you "should" know. I asked a few simple questions with the hopes of getting some constructive insight but you chose to attack my education and I'm not cool with that.

If anyone out there, other than Mikdee, has some constructive information in regards to my questions, I would love to hear from the experts so I can make a good decision on a new boat purchase down the road by helping me understand some of the operating costs and other important procedures.

Thanks

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

....take it easy Jack, he (Mike) is trying to help you and offer his experiences on this.
If you are looking for a page number somewhere with a pure empirical formula you are probably out of luck. Its not likely you're going to find one here.
If you really need to drill down a lot deeper than personal experiences, suggestions or trial and error then I suggest contacting the A.S.M.E, I'm sure you are familiar with them. Respectfully they can probably provide you with the math and linear answer you might be after.
Let us know what you find, obviously this would be of interest to all.
Keep us posted and welcome to the forum.
BP

 

[fishrdan]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

So what are the marine manufacturer's suggesting for proper break-in,,, 10-20 hours of varying RPM no excessive idling and no extended WOT? Kind of sounds like the same scenario an automotive engine goes through while being driven, stop-n-go traffic, transmission shifting.

You don't see too many new car-truck owners sticking it into 2nd gear and running down the freeway at 5000RPM, but a new boat owner could easily run their new boat at WOT all day long.

If you are worried about the $$$ for the first oil change, make the dealer throw it in for free with the boat purchase. Just another revenue stream...

 

[AZMinyard]

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[tommays]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

Well

A BIG part of breaking in is that they would like you to take it a bit easy so any defects show up in a small way rather than a more catastropic failure


As far as the oil change all the motors are very easy to change the oil when they leave the factory NOW if the boat builder decides that 27 pieces of WHITE sunpad need to be removed it will drive up the price a bit

My boat is reall easy but it still takes two people to remove the motor cover while being really carefull to NOT rip anything

 

[MikDee]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

Mikdee, wow! I've been an engineer for over 18 years and even obtained my masters degree but nowhere did I hear that 500 "boat" miles equals 1000 "car" miles. Please provide data to prove this. Even though it may be true and you might actually have some data to prove it, you claiming an engineer "should" know this is not a fair thing to say. What is your occupation so I can dispute something you "should" know. I asked a few simple questions with the hopes of getting some constructive insight but you chose to attack my education and I'm not cool with that.

If anyone out there, other than Mikdee, has some constructive information in regards to my questions, I would love to hear from the experts so I can make a good decision on a new boat purchase down the road by helping me understand some of the operating costs and other important procedures.

Thanks

First of all, I didn't say that 500 "boat" miles equals 1000 "car" miles? Don't be putting words in my mouth. I think you need to reread my reply. I'm not attacking your rep. I was merely stating a fact, I'm sorry if you took offense, it was meant to be a good natured rib. Many years ago we were told with a new car to keep it under 50mph for the first 500 miles that equals 10hrs, and then drive it easily for the next 1000miles, or 20hrs, and don't stay at one speed constantly. I always used that as a guideline, I figured everybody knew that, especially engineers. If you don't like my advice ignore it, no need for flaming.

My occupation is retired! but previous to that I was a Building Construction trades Steamfitter/Welder, with a hobby/necessity of building, & fixing, cars, boats, & motorcycles, for the last 48yrs.

 

[MikDee]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

....take it easy Jack, he (Mike) is trying to help you and offer his experiences on this.
If you are looking for a page number somewhere with a pure empirical formula you are probably out of luck. Its not likely you're going to find one here.
If you really need to drill down a lot deeper than personal experiences, suggestions or trial and error then I suggest contacting the A.S.M.E, I'm sure you are familiar with them. Respectfully they can probably provide you with the math and linear answer you might be after.
Let us know what you find, obviously this would be of interest to all.
Keep us posted and welcome to the forum.
BP

Thanks BP, I tried to send you a PM, about that skiboat, but your box is full just like mine,,,lol,,, Somebody got a good deal on it, if it were closer it would've been me

 

[QC]

Re: I/O Break-In Periods

You guys are forgetting about the drive break-in . . . Also, the 100 hour (or annual , whichever occurs first) oil change cost should include changing the drive fluids, removal of the drive, inspection of the water pump impeller, and a drive alignment check and adjustment if necessary, among some other stuff. Same as every year . . .

For comparison, in the diesel engine biz, we run them to high idle, check for leaks, warm 'em up, and then give her all she's got, lug her down to peak torque RPM (as low as 1000 RPM) then ship 'em. We specifically tell the driver to run the snot out of them . . . I have no idea what value that has, but I personally believe you could run a new I/O as hard as you want and your buddy could follow the 20 hour deal, and then you could tear them down and not find one single difference . . . But I am a wuss, so I still follow the book