4.3 or 5.0 Repower

TilliamWe

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

Motor mounts on a 4.3 V6 and a small block Chevy will not be in exactly the same place. How could they be? The difference in length comes from the middle of the block, so the front motor mounts will be in a different place in relation to the boat. My dad swapped a 4.3 for a 5.7 in 19' SeaRay, and he had to move the lagged screwed in motor mounts forward by about 4". (wonder why that was? oh yeah, 4.4" bore centers on a 4.3 and a small block.)
 

MikDee

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

Motor mounts on a 4.3 V6 and a small block Chevy will not be in exactly the same place. How could they be? The difference in length comes from the middle of the block, so the front motor mounts will be in a different place in relation to the boat. My dad swapped a 4.3 for a 5.7 in 19' SeaRay, and he had to move the lagged screwed in motor mounts forward by about 4". (wonder why that was? oh yeah, 4.4" bore centers on a 4.3 and a small block.)
I don't know about that? The engine swap I did about 10yrs ago as mentioned in my 78' Chevelle wagon, was from an original 229 cu in Chevy V6, to a low milage 89' Caprice 305 V8 4bbl, I put in new engine mounts, but they bolted up in the same place! Apparently the distance from the mounts to the auto tranny bell housing was exactly the same. It was one of the easiest engine swaps I ever did, surprisingly! Maybe I just got lucky? It was such a sweet ride after that, and almost as fast as my other car at that time, an 88' Monte Carlo SS 305 HO auto.
 

superpop

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

I think the pistons come off the front on the 4.3 as compared to its older sibling the SBC V8. You have all of the components that typically add a lot of cost to the replacement of a motor, but most of it looks like it could use some work. I would rebuild the carb, have the starter tested and clean it up and clean up the alternator, although if it was for the V6 then it wont work anyway with a V8. I would spend the few extra bucks and get the V8, resale will be better and it will perform better for what it is going to be used for, assuming your boys like to ski, tube, ect. Not a big deal to move the mounts though if you need to. The other limiting factor is the drive, I don't think the Alphas can handle the 5.7L especially with boys hammering on the boat like they will. I have the 4.3L in my 20 foot Wellcraft and I would go to the V8 if the motor blew up in mine. See my saying below.
 

superpop

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

And $800.00 for that boat, unless the front half looks way better than the back, or unless it has a really nice trailer is not cheap, its probably what the parts that are left would be worth plus the cost to cut it up and dump it. Definitely an opportunity for some sweat equity though.
 

mtnrat

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

Looking at those motor mounts/stringers, it looks like they can easily be moved forward if need be for a V8. If you do have to move them forward for the V8, just have the mounts on when you install it, get it aligned and mark and drill the holes and lag them in with some epoxy, 5200, or construction adhesive. An angle drill works well to get in there. Looks like a good project to me. Any pics of the whole boat?
 

TilliamWe

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

You got lucky Mik. Superpop, the missing cylinders on a 4.3 are not from the ends. Look at a 4.3 head compared to a SBC V8 head. The missing cylinders are either #5 and #6 or #2 and #3.

And as pointed out in the last post, it does appear that there is room on this boat's stringers to move them forward. It was probably designed that way, since both V6 and V8s were offered. Not terribly difficult, just another step that will have to take place.
 

Don S

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

Ot also depends on how much of the old stuff you want to use. The Thunderbolt distributor, wiring harness, and ignition modules from the V6 will not work in a V8, if you have all the brackets for PS, alternators, etc, it might be a lot less expensive the stay with the 4.3.
Another thing to look at is the outdrive. Does it have one? The 5.0 or 5.7 has a different gear ratio, and no, just changing a prop won't do the job. If it would, Merc would have done it.
 

mtnrat

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

Ot also depends on how much of the old stuff you want to use. The Thunderbolt distributor, wiring harness, and ignition modules from the V6 will not work in a V8, if you have all the brackets for PS, alternators, etc, it might be a lot less expensive the stay with the 4.3.
Another thing to look at is the outdrive. Does it have one? The 5.0 or 5.7 has a different gear ratio, and no, just changing a prop won't do the job. If it would, Merc would have done it.

With boats it seems there is always more to it than meets the eye.
 

Lou C

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

If you look at a 5.7/5.0 and a 4.3 side by side, the mounts on the V-8 are definitely farther forward than on the 4.3, I'd say by at least 4 inches or so (keep in mind the bore of the missing cyl is 4 inches, a 4.3 is 6/8ths of a 5.7, has the same 4" bore).
The other issue is the difference in gear ratios for the drive, I don't know Merc or Volvo #s but for my Cobra, the 4.3 used a 1.68:1, the 5.7 used 1.41:1.
I have to admit having the same idea, if I ever had to to a complete repower on this boat, a 5.7 with a 4bbl Q-jet and Volvo SX conversion would really wake up this old FW! And yes...already measured the engine stringers to make sure they go foward far enough....
Only downside is that the engine would come right up to the bulkhead behind the rear seat, so the room for working on the engine would be less unless I moved the seats and bulkhead foward.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

Lou, as I stated above, SBCs have a 4.4" bore center. So no matter if it's a 5.7 or 4.3 with a 4" bore or a 5.0 with a 3.74" bore, if you remove a cylinder from the middle, the engine will be just about 4.4" shorter!
And yes, you found the other problem, the seat. On this poster's boat, I'd really want to check clearance of that in floor fuel tank that sticks back into the bilge. I can see the damper pulley, or one if the accessories on the front of the 5.0 or 5.7 contacting that.
 

Lou C

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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

This is one of those things were you may not think of everything that will have to be changed till you get into it....looking at the op's engine layout, since he has the doghouse and side seats, you'd really have to make sure it's going to be long enough. I know that Volvo lists exact dimensions of their engine packages on their website, but it could be different for a Merc equipped boat. They list the V-6 as being 32.5 in long and the V-8 as being 36.8 so there you go, just a little more than 4 in. Another thing, that I did not think of before is the exhaust system, is the angle of the Y pipe the same for both V-6 and V-8 models, you'd have to check part #s to know for sure
I have to say with the 4.3/4bbl Q-Jet and a 15x17 prop, my boat has more than enough power, but a 5.7, at only a little weight more, would sure be nice!
 

wca_tim

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May 28, 2007
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Re: 4.3 or 5.0 Repower

I swapped a 4.3 out for a smallblock earlier this year. Yes you need a little more room forward. Otherwise,

The wiring harness will work - I'm using the wiring harness from my 4.3 on the v-8

The distributer body in my v-6 and v-8 have exactly the same part numbers the caps, are different.

The ignition module is dfferent - has a different advance curve. You can pick up a used one for very little, and if you take a good look at the advance curves, the v-6 has it's advance come in earlier - and is sometimes used for a v-8 build intentionally for the more agressive advance curve.

The alternator, powersteering, etc.. brackets should all work or at least mine did.

If you've got the room forward for the engine, moving the engine mounts forward is trivial. You have plenty of room to do it based on your pictures of the points where the mounts bolt / screw to the stringers. I attached the complete mounts to the engine, set it in place and bolted the rear part up, aligned it (all while still hooked to the hoist), then marked where the new holes should be, picked the engine back up, drilled the new holes, filled the old with sort of runny epoxy-based peanut butter, installed the lower half of the mounts seaing the long lag screws with 5200 and then put the engine back in and put everything else together. Note that since the engine mounts are located to carry a targeted portion of the weight of a car engine and transmission. They actually move forward less than the additional 4+" difference in length between the two engines. I don't remember right off the top, but I think I had to move the bolt holes a little under 4 inches.

The closest area in terms of clearance in my case was the top of the powersteering pump with the front of the engine compartment, it is close but worked out fine. Definately check the pulleys and pump clearance. Although, if the boat came stock as an option for a 5.0, it's dimensions would be the same as a 350 / 5.7 and you should have little or no problem getting it to fit.

The difference between the v-6 and v-8 exhaust is the connecting elbow between the risers and y-pipe - everything else after the manifolds is the same (The manifolds are different of course). They're cheap and easy to find since so many people swap to through hull exhaust. I put two pairs of the elbows, y-pipes and assorted exhaust clamps and hoses on the curb last weekend.

As an aside, if you go with an aftermarket aluminum exhaust on a v-8 it almost makes up the difference in weight between the v-8 and v-6 engine packages... as in within 30 pounds or so by the time you're done.

if you live in Eastern NC, I've got a bunch of stuff for a 350 you can have - I gave someone else my remaining 4.3 stuff aside from the spare engine I haven't gotten around to selling. but if you wind up putting a pre-vortec v-8 engine in it, you (or anyone else quite frankly) would be welcome to v-8 parts: the oil pan (I used an oversized circle track variety in the rebuild), valve covers, heads (1.94/1.5 valves) factory cast 4bbl manifold, etc...

The outdrive gear ratio will work fine...


Don,

I've learned a tremendous amount from your posts and really appreciate the depth of your experience and knowledge. I also agree that overall, Merc does a darn good job of engineering their products. That being said, the notion that a 1.84 gear ratio cannot be used effectively on a v-8 is silly. Merc set up their standard packages for various reasons, many of which I don't know, but there are many good prop options in the ranges that the original poster would have if he left the standard 1.84 gear ratio in his boat with a mild 350.

If for example with his new engine and a 1.5:1 outdrive ratio he would be turning a 21" prop, engine rpms of 4800, theoretical speed 64 mph (add some slip and we're at mid to upper 50's speed, very reasonable assumption for the tyupe of boat we're talking about). In fact, the 1.84 ratio will give more torque at the propshaft and the same peak horsepower (at a lower propshaft rpm). That same set-up with a 1.84 gear ratio and a similar designedand a generally analogous prop design would give similar performance with a 26" prop. a little less holeshot and a little more top end all other things being equal, but just like at any other common pitch range, tweaking pitch, specific prop design, blade cupping, vent holes, etc, etc, etc... can overcome and be set up to optimize whatever performance characteristic are desired. There are alos a lot of common, all-around great-performing props in that pitch range: laser 2, mirage plus, bravo, turbo 2+2, and a host of others... respectfully submitted...

Hope this is helpful.
 
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