No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

[Sirecks]

Good day all.

I'm new here, so just wanted to say "hi" first off.

I recently purchased a 2003 Sea Pro 220 CC. It has a 2001 Yamaha 250 Saltwater Series OX66 on the back.

We took the boat out for its sea trial, and it ran great for about 20 minutes. We took it out last weekend for about 3 hours, ran fine no issues. Yesterday took it out for about three hours as well.

Yesterday, as we were putting the boat on the trailer in the slip, I went to raise the motor and the hydraulics wouldn't kick on to raise the motor. As I'm trying to describe this to my dad, waiting to hook up the boat to the trailer, the motor dies. Then, nothing would work. No horn, lights, nothing. I turn the ignition key fully off, and go to raise the motor with the switch on the motor itself. It would come up two or three inches, and run out of power. I wait a few seconds and do it again. After this, I could get the horn to work, and such, but the motor wouldn't even try to turn over. That tells me that the batter has died.

Now, the battery is brand new. Only used the three times that I've had it. If this batter is old, or used, the previous owner took it out, cleaned it with a toothbrush, and waxed it. I do believe it is brand new.

I should add here that I'm an ex-heavy plane menchanic, with a current small plane mechanic certificate, and I'm usually a pretty mechanically inclined fella. I've got more hand tools than anyone needs, multimeter, wiring tools, etc.

Here's my question. I understand that outboards have alternators on them. Do they charge the battery like a car does? Could this be what I'm looking at, or in everyone's considered experience around here, could it be something else?

I appreciate you reading this, and any help you can throw my way.

Thanks.

Adam

 

[rrhodes]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

Sounds like a bad alternator.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

depends on the rigging, if it was rigged with the correct factory yamaha stuff you would have gotten an alarm and a low battery visual indicate.
trons is trons, doesnt matter if your working on a 747 or a 2hp air cooled.
test the battery voltage, if good do a voltage drop test between the + post and the battery switch,then to the stsrter solinoid, do the same test between the -post and the engine block.
just cause a tech has a 200 dollar fluke doesnt mean they actually know how to use it.
most techs simply dont understand what the meter can do or how to hook it up.
you would not believe how many Instructors have tried to talk about voltage flowing.
someplace arond 9V the fuel pump,injectors and ECU shut down.
if rigged correctly the voltmeter on the digital speedo will show avalible voltage at the ign circuits.
the 250 has a water cooled voltage regulator with a 3 phase stator winding it also incorperates a built in battery Isolator to charge a house battery sepertly from the starting battery.
you may wish to check the min fuses in case someone hooked up the battery backwards at some point and popped it, if it has not been used there is a spare 80 amp fuse in the holder.
if it has you can use the battery isolator lead fuse as most isolators were never rigged cause most riggers dont know it exists nor what its for.
if you dont have yamaha digital guages please consider adding them as thet tell the operator a lot of information that the Faria stuff simply cannot.

 

[Sirecks]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

Thank you very much for you responses.

I just got done with a simulator ride today, my family was in town all weekend, and we tore up our fence to make a gate for the boat this weekend. I'm a little too tired at this point in the day to start up on this. However, I wanted to let you guys know that I got your replies and am very appreciative.

Tomorrow, I've got nothing to do, so it will be dedicated to figuring this out. I'll post back when I have more questions, or answers.

If anyone else has any ideas, please please please let me know!!

Thanks

 

[triumphrick]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

There is an alternate charging circuit available on that motor that rodbolt indicated to. Look on the starboard side of the motor, in a wiring harness there may be a red wire with a fuse and a bullet connector and a dummy plug inserted in it. This is an alternate output from the rectifier that will charge a second battery. A boat and motor that size could certainly use one. Use at least 10 gauge wire, extend that lead neatly throught the wiring harness, out the motor and to the positive side of your second battery and move anything other than your motor to that battery. You do not have to use a battery isolator switch for the batteries. You connect the two battery negative sides to each other. You don't want this to happen three or thirty miles offshore. I just did this to my Yamaha 150 after reading this suggestion in these forums, probably by rodbolt! I did order a manual for my motor...found it on ebay for $24.50 used, if you don't need a new one. I have been a Navy trained ET for many a year, can figure most anything out...but gotta have that manual, and nothing beats the factory one. Real nice fold out wiring diagram on the last page.

 

[Sirecks]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

Thanks guys for all the advice. I really do appreciate it, and took it to heart.

We are going out tomorrow to get the extra battery.

Well, to spare you the details, I went out with my multimeter and started running wires. Everything seemed to be in order. Good ignition switch, good everything I checked. The battery was putting out 0 amps, with a good volts reading. So, it was in fact dead. It is currently charging in the garage.

I started inspecting the alternator wires and found something interesting.

It seems one of the phases isn't connected to the coils. You can see that there are wires connected to one of the other phases in this shot, and one that is not connected to anything.

The three wires for the different phases run to a small "box" that has a ground wire, and four red wires running to a sort of junction box.

I don't know what that "box" is. Would it affect the battery being charged, if there was not a good flow out of the alternator? Is it a sort of relay? In other words, I know that a bad connection to the coil is a bad thing, and I'm going to fix that part, but in y'alls expert opinion, have I found the needle in the haystack?

 

[triumphrick]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

The black box on the right of the picture is the regulator/rectifier, and the grey fuseholder with the red/pink wire coming out of it is the alternate charging circuit wire I previously posted about. I see the empty bullet connector from your coils...you may have found the problem. Maybe Yamajo, Rodbolt or others can comment on that...good luck.

 

[Sirecks]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

Okay, well, I took the coil for the alternator off, and it turns out that the wires connected to that seeming disconnected wire in the picture I supplied were just connected in odd places. The wire end I showed actually had the exposed wire double-backed on itself and run up to the coils. It is in fact connected.

So, I took my freshly charged battery, started up the motor, and checked the three phases of the alternator. Good 16V AC coming out of all three. I check the four leads that go to the computer on the back of the motor, and they were putting out a good 7V AC. So, the alternator seems to be working just fine.

Now, the red/white wires coming out of the rectifier/regulator are not putting out anything DC. The meter was "0." I checked them down stream at the big fuse box I have marked on the right.

The green, three phase wires run into the rectifier/regulator, and then the red/pink wires go directly to the fuse box. If voltage was coming out of the rectifier/regulator, then I should have been able to read voltage at the fuse box, right? 'Cause my guess is that the rectifier/regulator is bad, therefore no out put, therefore no battery charging. That's what I'm thinking.

Thanks again to all of you for your help. I appreciate you helping out a "noob" like this. Thanks!!!

EDIT: Oh, and triumphrick, that bullet under the fuse box has a fuse in it, and the fuse was good, as well as the wires on both sides of it. Also, the fuses in the fuse box all check good.

 

[triumphrick]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

I agree there should be a fuse in the grey fuse holder, but coming out of it is the alternate charging circuit wire, terminated at the empty bullet connector. That spare connector is the one referenced to in my first post for charging the second battery. Also see if it is dead at this time or is it putting out 13-14v charging voltage? If not it appears regulator/rectifier is bad.

 

[Sirecks]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

When you say "at the empty bullet connector" do you mean the smaller red wire with the bullet in it that has a battery terminal end on it in the battery space? If so, mine is connected to a terminal end, a good fuse in the bullet, and so on. You'll have to forgive my newbie questions here. As was said before, "trons are trons" but I've never messed with a boat circuitry before.

If so, then yes, all that wiring checks good for continuity, and has no voltage when the motor is running.

Both sets of wires going into the big fuse box are putting out "0" voltage with the motor running. These two sets of wires are coming right from the regulator/rectifier. So, out of that big fuse box comes the pink wire that is the second battery charging circuit.

I'm thinking, like you, that I've got a bad regulator/rectifier. I just was hoping to get some confirmation from those of you who have worked on this stuff before. All of my knowledge tells me that this is my culprit. I guess this being my first "fix" on the boat, I'm a little hesitant to spend the money until I'm sure that this is it. I know, "new boat people" . . . . . sorry for being such a pain.

Thanks triumphrick so very, very much for you help and patience. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[Sirecks]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

Okay, well, I talked with one of the Yamaha dealers around here, and the lead tech at this place had me run the motor, then, push it up to 3 - 4000 RPM. He said that my voltage meter on the console should have risen a bit with the throttle movement. It stayed directly at battery voltage and never moved, no matter what I did with the throttle. He said this is a sure fire sign of a battery that is not being charged.

So, I checked my voltage again coming off the regulator/rectifier. I had 12 Volts DC coming off one set of wires, and the other set coming off the regulator/rectifier was still nothing. So, with all those pieces put together, I ordered a new regulator/rectifier today. I won't be getting it for about 5 days or so, business days that is.

This is ultimately upsetting to me as it is gorgeous here and will be for the next couple of days!! Oh well, I guess there's always later on, huh?

Anyway, thanks again for all the help and support. I should be staying around to learn as much as I can from y'all.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

like I say, trons is trons.
its a very simple altenator and very simple to test.
it DOES require common sense and a working knowledge of alternating current generation and AC to DC rectification and regulation,same as in an airplane or a car or a motor cycle or about anything else with a charging system.
its a Y would 3 phase stator same as all other Y wound stators in existance worldwide.
to test it simply use the Ohm meter and test between A B and C then A B and C to ground.
a-b,b-c and c-a should show the same continuity and none from a,b or c to ground.
green to green at the 3 wire connector system loaded and at 1500 should be a peak voltage of about 40 v.
a peak reading or a DVA adapter is nessasary although on the AC scale you will see about 30V.
the regulator really cant be seen as its behind the plastic panal.
the 10 GA red wires at the fuse holder actually are that.
those metal looking things are 80 amp fuses.
when running the green stator wires should show over 30V and the red wire and red/white about 13.5 to 14.8.
all the tests for the stator and regulator happen to actually be in the service manual.
a dead or defective battery can take out the regulator as can a clogged tell tale hose as the regulator is water cooled.
occasionally we also see freeze damage due to improper winterizing.

 

[Sirecks]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

Hey Rodbolt,

Yes, the three phases of the alternator are all putting out good voltage. On my meter, reading the AC directly from the wires (by disconnecting the cannon plug, or quick disconnect just after the coil, before the regulator) and using the battery ground wire as a ground, I was getting about 16 to 17 Volts AC at idle in all three phases. These are the green wires you speak of, before they get to the regulator/rectifier.

The red wires, coming out of the regulator/rectifier are putting out about 12 Volts DC. The red wires, with the white stripe are putting out 0 Volts DC. This is what made me order a new regulator.

The smaller gauge wire bundle of four wires going to the computer are putting out about 7 Volts AC each. When I disconnect them, the engine shuts down.

The pink wire, with the bullet in it, shown in the picture I provided, is hooked up to the back of the red wires connection to the 80 amp fuse rubber block, not to the red with white stripe. So, this pink wire is getting a current. Triumphrick is telling me this is the charging line for a second battery. My smaller gauge, positive wire in the battery box, which I understand is the positive wire for the second battery, is also reading 0 volts in both AC and DC with the engine in idle. This smaller gauge, positive wire also has a bullet in it, inside the battery box. Both the fuses in the pink and smaller gauge, positive wire are good, and I get good continuity on both sides of them. I don't know if this is significant or not to you.

I guess in a long way I'm saying that to the best of my abilities, the alternator seems to be working just fine and all good current to the regulator. It's past the regulator where I'm missing voltage.

Thanks again for your input and keeping me honest. I'm a wrench turner by trade, not a cone head or spark chaser, so I do admit to having a severe deficiency in this area. However, I think I did this all right. Anyway, thanks again my friend.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

something in the 80 amp rubber fuse block looks funny, let me think on it a bit.
but something just doesnt look right.
however I think your on the right track, I gotta run by the shop and pick up my boat so Ill have a quick look at a OX66 250 hanging on the rack.
but the Isolator wire on the water cooled regulator is NOT the small pink wire but the 10GA red/white.
thats what is looking funny, the way the red and red/white wires enter the fuse holder.
unlike an automotive altenator this regulator and stator doesnt require a battery sense wire nor a stator exitation wire for operation, just rotate the flywheel magnets arond the stator and you have an output that is sent to a rectifier/regulator unit.
the service manual does have a detailed test for the unit that can be done with a DVM its even more accurate if your DVM has a diode check function.
regulator failure is rather rare on that engine. I have only seen a handful since 1990 and most were due to either freeze cracks in the regulator water passage or regulator overheat due to a clogged tell tale.

 

[Sirecks]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

Yeah most people I've talked to have said the same thing that it is strange to see a "solid state" piece of electronics go bad like this. Which is why I'm still only about 90% sure that this is right. I found the part for what is relatively a small amount, so that if this doesn't work, I'm not out TOO much money. However, I'm pretty confident that it is.

Rodbolt, thanks again so much for your help and talking with me on this. I really, really appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Sirecks]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

I just wanted to drop a quick line to say thanks again to those of you who helped me with this thread here.

I ordered the regulator/rectifier and it never came in. After three weeks of waiting, I finally contacted Yamaha proper and THEY COULDN'T FIND IT!! So, I turned to alternative methods. Everything from golf cart manufacturers to Ebay. I finally found one, factory wrapped, in perfect condition.

I threw it on the motor, and sure enough, my circuit that was putting out "0" volts DC, is now sending out a voltage flow, just like it's supposed to to charge the battery back up. I am also now getting a charge at the recharging lead in the battery compartment. So, my engine is whole again.

I also purchased a second battery and hooked it up per the owners manual, and purchased a service manual (Seloc).

So, thanks again for helping me. I didn't want you guys to think that I had forgotten all your help. I do appreciate it very much!!

 

[kandil]

Re: No power on 2003 Sea Pro 220

It is nice to see that you figured it out great thread thank you for sharing