1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

[gotjeepzj]

Engine is stuck in forward. After searching I found the most common problem is the wrong fluid. I drained the fluid (yes it was the wrong fluid) and refilled with type C.

No change.

Checked resistence on blue shift lead and got 6 ohms. No reading on green lead.

With key on checked voltage on green and blue wires. In neutral no voltage on either wire. In reverse 10 volts on blue and 4 volts on green.

What's next? Dropping the lower unit? Thanks for the help.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

That's confusing. No resistance reading on green lead? Does that mean infinity or zero? You are speaking of the wires going down to the lower unit, right?

The voltage readings are very suspect. Probably a bad shift switch.

Anyway, my next step would be to disconnect the wires going to the lower unit and start the motor. Then connect a jumper wire from the battery + to the green lower unit wire. It should go into neutral. Do the same, connecting the jumper to both green and blue at the same time and it should go into reverse. If it passes both of these tests, the lower unit is OK and you can turn your attention to the shift switch and related wiring.

 

[gotjeepzj]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

Thanks for the quick reply.

I forgot to add I couldn't reach the butt connectors to disconnect them. So I ran the ohm test with them still connected. The green wire read infinity. I'm going to install another set of butt connectors farther back so I can jump the wires easier.

I bought another control unit off e-bay. It arrived today and it wasn't for the hydro-electric engine, it was for regular electric shift. I was going to rob the fast idle lever since mine was broke. When I took them both apart everything looked identical internally, including the switch. The only difference was my controls had a green, blue, purple wire and the e-bay controls had a green, blue and red wire. I checked the ohms per the service manual and it passed the checks. So I cut my connector off my controls and put it on the e-bay controls and rechecked per the manual and it passed the tests.

I should add the tests were performed with the ignition turned to ON, I didn't start it or crank while performing the tests.

I know it won't actually shift unless it's running or cranking over, but is there something that stops power from being sent to the neutral wire unless it's cranking?

I think the purple wire from the controls is a 12 volt +. If that's the case I should be able to turn the key to on and check for power. Then I can rotate through F N R and check voltage on each side of the shift connector. That should eliminate any switch questions.

My concern is that with infinate ohms on the green/neutral wire there's a short. Also I don't know what to make of 10.8 volts/blue wire and only 4.2 volts/green wire when switched into reverse. From my understanding both wires should have 12 volts to switch into reverse.

Am I on the right track here, or am I way off base.

 

[Benny1963]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

sounds like your on the right track.do as fr said jump wires directly to battery with engine running if you get neutral and reverse your controls or wireing are bad i have had several and they shift great when working ,
jump the wires and post back dont worry about the ohms and voltage till you over ride harness by jumping

 

[gotjeepzj]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

I'll relocate the butt connectors and jump them tomorrow. I'll post what happens.

Thanks again.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

I wouldn't get too wrapped in the voltage and resistence readings at this point. Take F_R's advice and test the gearbox by applying voltage to the wiring via a jumper. Its either going to work or it isn't. As F_R said, if it works when you do this, the shift switch in the control unit is the most likely candidate. If you try this test without running the motor, you may not generate enough hydraulic pressure in the gearbox to actuate the shift piston.

If you have a factory service manual for your motor, check the wiring diagram section for a diagram of the plug in your motor. With this information, you should be able to locate the pins for the two shift circuits. You can apply the jumped voltage to those pins, thus avoiding the need to cut any wires. I would, however, find the missing blade connectors, because testing the circuits this way leaves them open as a potential source of your problem - it would be better to be able to test directly from the wiring, as it passes out of the midsection.

Also, I believe that there is a control unit for the hydro-electric unit that does not have the key switch and the choke switch mounted in it. Those items must be dash mounted. This unit is very similar in shape and appearance to the control box with key switch & choke switch installed. It also has a shift switch in it, but I think that switch is missing the neutral cutout feature. If you look at your shift switch, there should be a pair of white wires molded into it, while the other shift switch doesn't have them.

 

[gotjeepzj]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

Thanks Jay. I have dash mounted key and choke switch. The ebay controls I got were the same. I don't have white wires on my controls. Like I said, the only difference between the 2 was mine had a purple wire, and the ebay model had red wire instead.

I think I must've mispoken, but I'm not missing any spade connectors. I don't like the spade connectors for the shift solenoids. I can't really get to them and I'd rather not yank on 40 year old wires

I'll jump it tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

I hear you about the 40 year old wires, and the wiring harness that runs down through the midsection isn't available anymore. If your sure that the continuity is good from the plug to the solenoids, you should be able to make the jump at the plug. Let us know how it works out.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

Do your voltage and continuity checks at the motor, where the wires head down to the lower unit. Continuity checks with wires disconnected, voltage checks with the wires connected. Never do a continuity (ohms) check on anything with power applied.

 

[gotjeepzj]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

*UPDATE*

Jumped the wires at the controls plug while running. 13.8 volts on green wire, 10.6 on blue wire. Nothing, no shifting into neutral or reverse.

Decided to bite the bullet and drop the lower unit. The top of both solenoids were extremely gummy and soft. More on that in a minute. Check continuity at the solenoids and the wire harness and got infinite ohms on the green wire. It had shorted out between the solenoid and the gromet of the cover plate.

We have a great place here that deals in new and used parts. So I went to Stone's and Son Marine and the owner was extremely helpful. Not only did he know exactly what my engine was, he was very fond of the hydro electric shift. He took a look at the gummy solenoids and to my amazement said that it was fine. He could've tried to sell me a set, but he didn't. He even went to the back and got another plunger since I left one with the boat. He hooked both up one at a time to a battery and checked both. They tested fine. He verified a short in the wiring harness. I decided to buy a new one at $200!!! Wow 3 feet of wire!

Went home, reinstalled everything but didn't plan on fighting the wire for over an hour. Got it all back together and started cleaning up when I noticed I didn't install the key for the water pump.

It's my fault for trying to finish the job tonight.

I'm hoping I can drop the lower unit just enough to reinstall the key without removing the wire harness again.

I'll give it a try in the morning.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

I know that $200 seems like a lot for that wiring harness (and it is), but they are very hard to find. I've heard stories of people paying quite a bit more. Glad to hear that you found the problem, though.

 

[gotjeepzj]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

* UPDATE x 2 *

Got it all back together and it still wouldn't shift with controls. Jumped it at the control connector and it shifted into both neutral and reverse.

I didn't realize this at the time but electramatic engines default into neutral not forward. The ebay controls I bought were for an electramatic engine. When I swapped switches with that control it didn't work.

I retested my original switch and it passed on an ohm meter. I'll hook it all back up and test it again on the boat. I think it'll be fine.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

Yep, use a Hydro-Electric switch on an Electramatic and you will bust something in the lower unit as it tries to go into forward and reverse at the same time. A very expensive lesson!!

 

[gotjeepzj]

Re: 1969 85 hydro-electric shift problems, I have the manual

I'm glad I had it the other way around then.