Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

[reelfishin]

I just got done cutting off all the U bolts and hardware from a 2007 Load Rite roller trailer.
It just seems to me that in this day and age they would have used stainless steel hardware, at least on things that are adjustable if nothing else.
Especially on a galvanized trailer sold in NJ where its most likely going to see saltwater.
Not a single piece of hardware was stainless. The frame is fine, no signs of rust, but not a single bolt had enough of a nut surface left to remove short of using a cutter. The hardware isn't even galvanized, just zinc plated at best.
Would it kill them to use better hardware? It only cost me about $60 to put all new stainless hardware on it, I wouldn't expect that it would have cost them near that much if the were buying in bulk and I am sure that anyone would have gladly paid an additional $100 or so for the better hardware.
I've yet to see a galvanized trailer around here come new with stainless hardware. A few all aluminum high end trailers but that's it. I can see not bothering on a painted trailer but even then it's not that much more money.
The new price tag on this trailer was $2200 with the winch. The hardware didn't last a full year of use. The springs and running gear are fine, just the bolts are shot. (I bought this after a buddy sold his boat minus the trailer, then bought a new boat that came with a new trailer as well). I am refitting it to my 15' Sportcraft.

 

[Splat]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

My guesses would be cost, and galvanic corrosion. Also with all stainless hardware galling becomes an issue when using stainless nuts and bolts. You would have to use two kinds of metal to achieve a non locking, non-pitting surface. Which then brings you back to galvanic corrosion.

Bill

 

[dingbat]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

The reason they don't use stainless hardware because of galvanic and crevice corrosion, hardware gulling, and the ability to use a torch to remove it.

I?d rather change out the zinc chromate hardware every 10 years or so than deal with the effects of the problems listed above on an ongoing basis.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

Wouldn't I get more than a year or two out of stainless U bolts? On my other trailers where I replaced the hardware with stainless steel, I used Never Seize on the threads along with Nylon lock nuts. They've shown no signs of corrosion or other ill effects. One of them has had stainless on it for 5 years.

Plain steel just don't cut it in saltwater, especially on bolts which have little to no protection. Even galvanized hardware would last longer.

I can understand not using stainless on things like suspension or other high stress areas but parts of the trailer which require adjustment need to be kept free of rust. I've not really had any frame rust problems, other than severe rust staining from hardware rusting away.

I didn't realize that stainless posed a corrosion problem on a trailer? I though it only had issues below the waterline?

 

[dingbat]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

The problem is not so much the problem with stainless but how it interacts molecularly with the other materials on the trailer. Instead of the steel bolts taking the brunt of the corrosion perhaps it?s now the frame or some of the aluminum components on the frame. No doubts it?s accelerated the decay of the galvanizing on the frame.


Here is some reading on the subject

http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm

FWIW: Zinc chromate hardware offers much improved protection over zinc plated hardware. Hot dipped Galvanized hardware should be avoided as it?s tensile strength typically isn?t up to the task.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

reelfishin...
I replace with SS where possible. I haven't found SS u-bolts but have used SS all thread on smaller applications.
I can't explain why anyone thinks it will promote corrosion. I'm not a chemist or scientist, but I do know that I have not experienced this. Of course, I have also seen ocean water rust SS.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

reelfishin...
I can't explain why anyone thinks it will promote corrosion. I'm not a chemist or scientist, but I do know that I have not experienced this. Of course, I have also seen ocean water rust SS.

Just because you didn't get shocked the last time you plugged in the light doesn't mean people don't die by electrocution.

If you?re interested I have a 3? thick binder of presentations and papers on the subject. I attended a 3 day seminar last fall on the subject sponsored by the Association of Iron and Steel Technologies.

Corrosion is a molecular phenomenon so unless you have a background in metallurgy, chemistry and physics it?s a pretty tough read.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

I agree on the galvanized hardware not being up to the task, I gave up on finding galvanized U bolts that will actually tighten up without breaking.
Most are so soft they won't even tighten enough to clamp an unloaded bunk.

If galvanic corrosion is the issue, then why not a sacrificial anode of some sort?

The trailers with the stainless hardware on them have shown no corrosion anywhere, the only aluminum on those trailers is the roller arm brackets, I replaced the upright brackets with galvanized steel since I didn't trust the thin aluminum stands that it came with.

My one trailer does have a pair of zincs mounted to the lower rear end of each frame rail, it came that way new. They don't seem to have any real effect on bolt corrosion, as those bolts on that trailer are pretty well rusted, and that trailer rarely sees saltwater.

I've yet to see any corrosion on any of the stainless U bolts or anywhere else on those trailers, if it is taking a toll on the galvanization, it's not noticeable yet after several years.

I've been totally amazed at how fast the plain steel hardware will corrode away, even just sitting in the yard here. In only a few months, I've watch bolts deteriorate to the point that a wrench will no longer work to remove them. This is at my house, which is at least 20 miles from the nearest saltwater as a crow flies.

 

[Shizzy]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

Personally Im a fan of hitting rusty things with a can of 89 cent rattle can black rather then sit and watch them rust. Slows down the rust at least.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

Personally Im a fan of hitting rusty things with a can of 89 cent rattle can black rather then sit and watch them rust. Slows down the rust at least.

I usually wire brush off the rust every few weeks and coat with Rustoleum Cold galvanizing spray, and then sometimes some cheap aluminum spray paint from Walmart to make it less noticeable. I guess it helps, but not for long. The newer trailer that rusted away so bad got stored in an open building for 3/4 of its life, it still rusted. Even with washing it down after every use.
I installed a new coupler on my one trailer two weeks ago, it's been raining off an on since, or at least every day I've been home, the new zinc plated coupler is already rust coated, everywhere where my greasy fingerprints aren't. I had intended to paint it after putting it on but it started to rain that day. I don't know what they plate this stuff with but it's not worth much at all. Even the plating rusts. That trailer still has it's original hardware, which will most likely have to be cut off if I have to ever readjust the bunks or suspension. I'd more understand it if I were right at the shore, but I'm not. Maybe I just got spoiled living in PA all those years where I didn't have to deal with saltwater.

 

[shepster]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

I have an ABT aluminum I-beam bunker trailer. ABT puts all stainless hardware on there trailer. Comes with galvinized axles, with disc brakes, just had to touch up on the botom of the axles with some rustolium. Been around salt water entire life and still looks great.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

Just because you didn't get shocked the last time you plugged in the light doesn't mean people don't die by electrocution.

If you?re interested I have a 3? thick binder of presentations and papers on the subject. I attended a 3 day seminar last fall on the subject sponsored by the Association of Iron and Steel Technologies.

Corrosion is a molecular phenomenon so unless you have a background in metallurgy, chemistry and physics it?s a pretty tough read.

...and I believe everything the government tells me.

I've got a lot of equipment with SS hardware including trailers that get dunked into brackish water. Come look at 'em. The brakes and springs are gonna go long before the SS bolts. Don't care what your 3" books say. The SS stuff will be there when the rest of the trailer rots. or do the springs rot from the SS bolts holding the racks?

You might let the CG in on this...they use SS hardware on their steel boats.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

At what point can you attribute any frame or spring corrosion to the stainless bolts vs. just what would have occurred normally with the plain steel hardware in place? I've never seen any accelerated corrosion with stainless hardware, but the plain steel bolts sure to disappear pretty fast.
All I can say is that on trailers which I replaced the hardware with stainless, all is as it was when I first installed the new bolts. No further rust, corrosion or stains. The galvanization is still in like new condition.

I do notice that there seems to be two distinct types of galvanized coatings on trailers. I have some here that look sort of mottled but the surface is smooth to the touch, much like the galvanization on a new trash can, others have a coating that is rough, with runs and drips, it looks more like it was dipped in molten zinc. Both seem to work out fine, and if I take an item here to be galvanized, it comes back like the latter type, looking like it was dipped.

Last week I replaced the U bolts on one trailer here in order to be able to move the axle to fit another boat. I replaced those with original bolts since I had them on hand. That trailer has since been sitting in my back yard, with the boat on it, but has not yet seen the road or water. Those brand new Zinc plated bolts are already coated with rust, it rained all last week and that was enough to get them started. To make matters worse, I had even wiped down those bolts and sprayed them with silver paint to stave off any corrosion. There is no power connected to either the boat or trailer and it has not moved since I set the boat up on it.
Either the plating on the hardware these days is just worthless, or the rain here is corrosive. On the other hand, two new 3/8" bolts which I put out as an experiment have no signs of corrosion on them after the same amount of time, they too are zinc plated.

While springs do corrode, they don't see the corrosion that the bolts and other hardware does for some reason. I think a lot of the problem is cheap hardware, I have older trailers, circa 60's and 70's which have all original hardware with no major problems, the hardware gets rusty but not to the point where its not functional.

I see the corrosion as two types, the type that just makes the bolts brown or rough, but the threads will still work and the flats of the bolt and nut never really get attacked or reduces, and then the type that gets all scaly and will break off when touched leaving huge voids and missing material.
The latter is the type of rust of most concern as its the most damaging.

While I'm no metallurgist, I do realize that the content of the steel itself has much to do with how fast or how likely it is to corrode, as well as it's hardness and strength. It seems that the newer hardware is lacking something, (maybe nickle content?). The bolts which have the greater tendency to rust also have a greater tendency to strip or stretch easily when tightening.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

reelfishin...
I replace with SS where possible. I haven't found SS u-bolts but have used SS all thread on smaller applications.
I can't explain why anyone thinks it will promote corrosion. I'm not a chemist or scientist, but I do know that I have not experienced this. Of course, I have also seen ocean water rust SS.

I was browsing a trailer parts website and all the U bolts were stainless. In fact, most of the hardware was stainless.

I have to admit, the few stainless steel bolts on my galvanized trailer show no corrosion, and that is in salt water use. If there is interaction, it is so minute as to be undetectable with my eyes.

 

[eli_lilly]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

Let me put this one to bed. Nearly everyone down here in South Florida uses aluminum trailers with stainless hardware and galvanic corrosion is a non-issue. Yes, you can see the trailer frame pitting as a result but the rate of corrosion is insanely slow. It'd take 50 years for a half inch pit to form.

-E

 

[kabcpapc]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

If one used stainless steel hardware on a painted trailer, what would be the consequences? I can see using zinc plated or zinc chromate bolts (U-bolts, etc.) on suspension components, but what about the other places? If one did use stainless, would anything need to be done such as using anti-seize on the threads? If zinc plated or zinc chromate bolts were used, could you possibly use liquid electrical tape to cover the threads to prevent rust from forming?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

the bean counters have something to say about this, cost/profit. most trailers are set up once, for a praticular boat, and never adjusted again. servicing axle carriages, a sawzall usually takes care of the problem rather quickly.

 

[marquette]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

i don't know if this could be a factor on some of the bolts on trailers. last fall i was listening to a couple of machinist's talk about stainless bolts. (and maybe there are some people on here that could help with this) but the basis of the conversation was about proper torque on stainless bolts and how suseptible they were to stress cracks if over torqued and then shearing under load. they were talking about putting flanges on drive shafts together. so maybe there are places on a trailer where stainless will not stand the pounding or twisting. or maybe they require more attention during assembly thus increasing cost. i wish i could remeber what grade bolts they were talking about because i remember something about grade but not enough.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Why not stainless hardware on new trailers?

Just like plain steel, there are different grades of stainless, different percentages of chromium in the steel. I worked in a fabrication shop years ago, we worked a lot with what we referred to as 'medical grade' stainless, most of which were hospital carts and equipment. That stainless was so hard it could not be drilled with anything short of a carbide drill bit.
I have also seen bolts and other parts which are so soft, they need to be protected from wear and damage and yet other grades which will rust if exposed to the weather.

Back when I first posted this topic I was in the process of redoing a bunk trailer I had here on which every U bolt on it had to be cut off, it's a galvanized frame, all parts are attached with U bolts so there are no 'breaks' in the galvanized coating.
The frame was rust free. I replaced all suspension parts, all bolts and all of the bunk brackets and rollers. I used galvanized bolts on the roller brackets because that's what they came with, and use two galvanized U bolts for the forward bunk brackets and two stainless pair of U bolts for the rear. (The local marina didn't have 4 of any one type at that time). All hardware is 1/2" diameter. The trailer was completed and the boat set up on the trailer at that time, the weather turned cold and it got covered up and parked outside.
After nearly 3 months of sitting outside, never seeing saltwater, the two stainless U bolts still look new, the rest of the hardware is already bleeding rust. I don't live so close to saltwater where the air or humidity would be salty, I'm over 30 miles from the nearest saltwater.
The bolts I used were a combination of zinc plated and galvanized, both are rusting equally, the galvanized bolts started to rust from the threads and are bleeding rust, even though all bolts were put on with anti seize compound, the frame shows no rust, just the hardware. There is no power in the boat, no electrical power present.
The level of rust won't increase much but it looks horrible in just 3 months, if all of the hardware had been stainless, it would no doubt still look the same as it was 3 months ago. I'm not looking to get 100 years out of it, just not to have to replace every bolt on every trailer every other year, especially on one that hasn't and most likely won't ever see saltwater.

The thing that gets me is that I have other trailers, not boat trailers, which are non galvanized, and have no special hardware that have lasted 20 years with no substantial rust, they sit outside, parked more than in use, that don't have this problem. All are light steel frames.
I fully understand that dissimilar metals will react but on a boat trailer on which all bolts are made of the same material, (galvanized steel), there shouldn't be an issue this quick. My cars and trucks don't show rust, nothing else here rusts. That tells me that makes me strongly suspect the grade of hardware sold for marine use as being at fault?

Why would it experience any galvanic corrosion sitting in the yard, not exposed to any particularly corrosive elements with no presence of electrical power? The stainless bolts clearly are the right choice and the difference in cost is minimal. I think a pack of 2 galvanized U bolts were like $3.59, and the stainless pair were around $5 for the same size. I'd have used all stainless if I could have found it then, but I need to get the boat up and on the trailer at that time. I've also found that many of the galvanized bolts are soft, they will break easily, I've had a few that I couldn't even torque to the needed level without either breaking the bolt or stripping out the nuts.