moving probs

[seakayaker]

Okay, you should first know that I know very little about boats. I have a boat that my cousin started restoring, did a great job, till he ran out of money. I bought the boat to help him out, and although it was not completed, we both thought it was to the point that it could be used. He had done a ton of work on the boat, and had the motor running like a dream, and, in the back yard, the prop moved as expected when put into gear, both forward and backwards.

A couple of weekends ago, I put it in the water. It was a little (okay, a lot) cold natured, but once it started, it sounded really good. Unfortunately, when I pushed down the throttle to back up, it didn't go any where, then cut off. after a couple of attempts, it turned over again, I manually turned it around, and tried to go forward. I engaged the throttle, the engine sounded like I should be going like a bat out of hell, but I was just barely moving. I went about 50 ft, really slowly, I throttled down, and the engine cut off. It wouldn'st start back up, but I think that had to do with the battery, as by the time I got it started the last time, it was showing signs of being drained.

I called my cousin. We thought about the possibility of a shear pen. I pulled the cone nut and found something that I thought might be a shear pen, but it looked undamaged, besides, there was splining on the shaft and in the prop, meaning that whatever that pen is, it could be broken, and the shaft would still turn the prop. We then thought that it might be that rubber pressure gasket thingy that is supposed to slip if the prop hits bottem, so it doesn't damage the gear box.

I took the prop off and ran a screw driver through the hole where the pen normally goes. I attempted to twist the splining out of the prop itself. I put more pressure on the prop than water ever would. The prop didn't slip at all.

Then I put the prop back on, and engaged the throttle w/out turning on the engine. the prop would only turn an inch or two before locking. I again tried to turn the prop as hard as I could. It wouldn't budge.

Does this not mean that the gear box is still in tact?

So why was I not going any where when I engaged the throttle.

I'd appreciate any help.

Thx, Rich

 

[eurolarva]

Re: moving probs

If you could post make and model number that would help. Is this a chrysler or a force? From what you described I would say your problem is not a sheared pin or a spun prop hub. If the hub were slipping it would not do this at low speed, at least with the test you performed. I would think maybe the pivot screw was removed and re inserted by mistake. This would make it so the shifter wont work.

 

[maxum247]

Re: moving probs

I'm beginning to wonder if the splines on the driveshaft itself are stripped or if the shifter adjustment is such that the gears aren't engaging completely! max

 

[JB]

Re: moving probs

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=250874

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: moving probs

Well, Rich--I am going to go a little out on a limb here.

It sounds like you have a Chrysler engine. Almost every Chrysler engine from the smallest to the largest--up until about 1979--used a spline drive prop with a "shear pin." Actually, the shear pin was a thrust pin. It located the prop on the splined prop shaft so it would not slide back and contact the gearcase while running. It worked, but frankly, I never liked the arrangement. On my Chrysler 90 which is a thrust pin drive, I am lucky enough to have enough room behind the solid hub bronze racing prop to install a split stainless collar to take the thrust loads. Later Chrysler and Force larger engines used a much better thrust washer behind the prop while most of the smaller engines continued to use the same pin drive.

But back to the issue: All props have a rubber cushioned hub and with age or wear, some of them will slip. The usual method is that the prop will slip at high throttle settings and re-engage at low speeds. It gets progressively worse as it is used more and the rubber wears.

While you THINK you tested the prop by turning by hand, there is no way you can generate the loads and horsepower necessary to cause the prop to slip. That's why the prop shaft is splined--to better handle these loads. Even the worst prop will still be able to turn the engine by hand against compression in gear and appear to be in excellent condition.

The only way to check for a spun hub is to mark the hub (the aluminum prop hub, not the bronze insert with the pin.)--in this case in line with the pin--and run it on the engine. after running. you remove the prop or in your case just the tailcone. If the mark is no longer in line with the thrust pin, then the prop has slipped. 'Smatter of fact, you could mark the prop hub in line with the cotter pin on the tailcone and would not need to remove anything to see if it had slipped.

If you have spun the rubber hub, you can send the prop out to a prop shop and they will repair it--but it will probably cost as much as it would to buy a used prop.

A second option would be to drill three or four holes radially through the inside of the prop and hub at the rear of the prop. You then insert bronze pins and effectively lock the hub to the prop. This is controversial because many people feel that it negates the protective cushioning effect of the rubber if you hit anything.

To me, that argument is worthless because it is similar to saying that newer car bumpers are useless because they collapse if you hit anything. The object is not to go around hitting things with your prop or car, is it? And granted, it is under water where you can not see, but with a little care, you MAY go a lifetime without hitting anything. Besides, if the pins installed in the hub are sized correctly, they will shear at about the same impact pressure it would take to slip a new rubber hub. The only drawback is that they will not re-engage if sheared so you would find it necessary to replace the prop on the water--You do have a spare prop, don't you? Even if you never have a flat tire, you carry a spare tire in your car.

Once you determine if you have a spun hub or not, then come back and we will address the issue of hard starting and stalling in gear at idle. Your engine should start quickly cold or hot, and idle rock solid--doesn't matter how old or what horsepower it is.

 

[seakayaker]

Re: moving probs

Thx Guys for all the info.

I'm sorry I neglected to share with you the type of outboard I have. Frank, you guessed right - It is a chrysler 105 - at least that's what says on the cover, but my cousin couldn't get it to start until he found - and used - the firing sequence for a 115. As for the model #, it can't be found.

We think its a '78.

also, in a desparate attempt to show off just how ignorant I am of boats, I thought I'd let you guys know that I stumbled across an old post here in Iboats. It was a reply to "request for operating info."

I'm wandering if I just didn't get the engine completely engaged. I had know idea what that little push butten thingy is on the throttle assembly. I played with it a little, but I'm not sure I ever got it pulled out while trying to start it, and and in while trying to move.

This also probably explains the difficulty in getting it started. I had no idea you had to put the boat in "fast throttle" while trying to start. Its a wander I ever got it started. I wound up palming the bottem carborator while someone else started it.

All this to say, I'll let you guys know what happens the next time I get a chance to try it out.

I have to at least replace the battery (and get a spare), put some more foot oil in before I can get it out again.

PS - EDIT: soliciting is forbidden. JB

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: moving probs

Strange---I have a 1971 Bayflite V163 that I am looking to divest also.

At any rate--ALL Chrysler and Force four cylinder engines use the same firing order:1324. Someone before you had gotten confused and if it is a distributor engine, they attached the wires incorrectly. You would be surprised at how many ways people screw up a dirt simple engine.

If you only want to sell it because of troubles with the engine, I live about 30 miles west of Philly--just off 202. If you wanted to drag it out here someday, it could be set up in perfect running condition in a couple of hours--ASSUMING, of course, that there is nothing physically wrong with the powerhead. If you have no other boat, it is an inexpensive way to go. The 16 foot Bayflite is actually 16'9" and has enough room to satisfy boating needs for a couple of years, depending upon your use. You can take it out on the Delaware and party, waterski, or down to the Chesapeake and cruise. Just a tad small for a whole day on the Chesapeake, but if you are younger, it will do nicely.

(Sh! Don't tell anyone, but it will get you to all the nude (clothing optional) beaches. Look up Chesapeake naturist or natural on line and you will get the latitude and longitude of them. Do not look up Chesapeake nude beaches--you will only get porn sites--useless.)

ANYWAY: I digress. The 105 being the base engine of the 4 cylinder models, not only is dirt reliable, but also has potential to cheaply be upgraded. AND, I always thought that Chrysler engines combined with older Glastrons were a classy looking combination. Not as fast as a Merc or OMC, but better looking.

So: the decision is yours. Contact me with a private message if you decide you want to keep it.