Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

[Mark42]

Spent last night reading the USCG regs on fuel tank installations. They are very specific about fuel line from tank to carb, and vent hose, but the fuel fill is left rather undefined. The hose is specified (USCG Type A1 meets all appliecations), and the clamping is specified, but nowhere does it say what types of tubing is allowed, either metalic or plastic. It does say that barbs or rings or flare is not needed on the fuel fill connections (it is required on fuel hose). The regs also say that any metalic parts of the fuel fill must be bonded to the boats ground.

The regs are very specific on metalic fuel line - it must be copper or copper-nickel or nickel-copper. Aluminum or steel are not allowed.

Because fuel fill allows for smooth pipe connections(double clamped), I think that a common 1-1/4" copper elbows will be safe and pass any inspection, as long as they are bonded.

To the point: its looking like the fuel fill on my Bayliner permanent tank install may need two or more bends/elbows (at least one 90 and maybe two 45 or 30) that are too tight for rubber hose to make. I have about 16" or so of USCG Type A1 1-1/2" fill hose. I'm thinking that the hose can be cut into short sections (4-6") used to make connections between copper tube/fittings.

Anyone see any problem with this? I want to pass any inspection by the USCG.

From the regs:

FEDERAL LAW

183.558 - Hoses and connections

(b) Each hose used -

(1) For a vent line or fill line must be:

(i) ?USCG Type A1? or ?USCG Type A2?; or
(ii) ?USCG Type B1? or ?USCG Type B2? if no more than five ounces of fuel is discharged in 2-1/2 minutes when:

(A) The hose is severed at the point where maximum drainage of fuel would occur,
(B) The boat is in its static floating position, and
(C) The fuel system is filled to the capacity marked on the tank label under Sec. 183.514(b)(3).

 

[Bondo]

Re: Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

Anyone see any problem with this? I want to pass any inspection by the USCG.

Ayuh,.... I don't see any Problems with the Coasties,....
But,...
I think your Sizings are Off....

1,1/2" Fillhose is Way Big on 1, 1/4" Copper sweat fittings... I believe...
And,...
Any angles, Especially 90? is going to create fill speed problems at the gas pump...
2, 45?s would be Better, if Possible...

As long as you can get a good tight fit on the fittings,+ use wire bonded fill hose,...
It should be just Fine...


Btw,...
You haven't gotten to Vent questions yet, but I'll throw this at you anyways,....

Make Sure the vent line runs from the hull vent, looped Up,+ Then down to the tank....
I fought a water in the fuel issue for Years before I discovered this on 1 of my hulls...

 

[oops!]

Re: Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

there is a lot of really good information in the above post mark......it kinda covers the whole gamout of the install basics.

bubbas point is good....think of that when you make the above mentioned vent loop.

and aslo make sure that loop is not kinked or it will "burp" gas all over.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

From what I've read on it the concern is you don't want any place in the fuel fill that will create a "low spot" or obstruction that will retain fuel in the line. In other words all fuel drains to the tank.

Thanks! Good point. It looks like the fill hose will be all uphill from the tank to the deck fill plate, but I'll make sure then installing the fittings and hose.

Ayuh,.... I don't see any Problems with the Coasties,....
But,...
I think your Sizings are Off....

1,1/2" Fillhose is Way Big on 1, 1/4" Copper sweat fittings... I believe...
And,...
Any angles, Especially 90? is going to create fill speed problems at the gas pump...
2, 45?s would be Better, if Possible...

As long as you can get a good tight fit on the fittings,+ use wire bonded fill hose,...
It should be just Fine...


Btw,...
You haven't gotten to Vent questions yet, but I'll throw this at you anyways,....

Make Sure the vent line runs from the hull vent, looped Up,+ Then down to the tank....
I fought a water in the fuel issue for Years before I discovered this on 1 of my hulls...

I did some measuring on copper fittings and this is what I came up with: The Fuel Hose is 1.5" ID, and the tank fill is 1.5" OD and 1.1" ID. 1.25" copper tube is 1.25" ID, and about 1.375 OD. A 1.25" elbow is about 1.50" OD on the outside ends of the elbow, and 1.25" ID in the inside of the radius bend. So 1.25" copper elbows are a good match to the hose. Assuming I didn't screw up those measurements... Also, there are long and short elbows, the long having a more radius than the regual 90. I'll go with long if I can find them, otherwise, its two 45's.

And I'll take the advice on the vent loop. It will be low enough to have a loop, and high enought that it is above the top of the tank so it can't siphon out. And like Ooops said, no kinks.

The fill will probably go on the cap above the transom opposite side from the swim/ladder platform. Regs say that an overflow of the fill can not run into the boat. So thats why I'm putting it on the outside of the boat. And because I almost always fill at a gas station on the trailer (not on the water) I don't have to worry about polluting our water.

This is the fill that will be used. It's the same one I used when installing a permanent tank in the MFG, and I know it seals really well with the O-ring so water can't get in. And its solid cast stainless steel, so it will last in the salt.

And this vent, in SS too.

No chrome plated zinc on this boat! LOL!

 

[Mark42]

Re: Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

BTW, here are the regular 90 compared to a long 90:

Traditional 90:

Long 90:

 

[mnydvr]

Re: Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

I guess I have an issue with Cruisers yachts,I was working on a 38' with twin crusaders and did a fuel tank replacement (nightmare to say the least) at the bottom of the fuel fill on both sides the hose went completely flat(horizontal) for about 8 to 10 inches,this would defintely leave a "no drain" situation,NO?, now that is a stock ,manufactures install,but there is no way to change it due to the 90* elbow made on the tank, so........?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

That's the same fill and vent I put on one of mine. It's been 7 years and no water has gotten past it.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

I guess I have an issue with Cruisers yachts,I was working on a 38' with twin crusaders and did a fuel tank replacement (nightmare to say the least) at the bottom of the fuel fill on both sides the hose went completely flat(horizontal) for about 8 to 10 inches,this would defintely leave a "no drain" situation,NO?, now that is a stock ,manufactures install,but there is no way to change it due to the 90* elbow made on the tank, so........?

If the Cruisers yacht was deisel powered, then it has a different set of regulations to follow. Otherwise, if its gas powered, it sounds like it is in violation of current regs.

 

[mnydvr]

Re: Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

Its gas powered and these are STOCK installs and with the tank inlet being the way it is .....you ain't changing it so............?

 

[OldePharte]

Re: Fuel Fill - Am I doing this right?

Make sure that the fuel fill is mounted slightly slanted. My 240 Midships has the fuel fill placed on a vertical surface. Since fuel fill is straight, filling my 70+ gallon tank takes forever and I had to find a gas pump with absolutely no waves. Fuel nozzles have a slight bend to them. To keep the backwash to a minimum, we had to get 3 to 4 people on the front end and then trickle the gas in.

I wound up having to cobble together a gas "bong." Plastic tubing fitted with a large funnel. The tubing pretty much screws into the fuel fill and the clear tubing allows me to see how it is filling. Admittedly not the best solution, but the only option open to me at the time.