Lowrance HDS-5

kandil

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567
Re: Lowrance HDS-5

I think you can do it however the problem would be the transducer you will have to figure out a way to mount it
 

cougtoad

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Feb 20, 2009
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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

The tech gave me a part number for a suction cup mount that he said would work. Number 51-52 if that means anything....

Have you used your HDS-5 yet?
 

John_S

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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

The current draw should be in the user's manual, and would need to calculate AH (amp hours) from the particular battery. In general, the new high-resolution, bright, color screens use allot more than the black/white screens. I use cheap 6V Sealed lead-acid lantern batteries and they will power my HB 797 for 5-6 hours. I have a 2nd set, for all day fishing.

I can't speak for Lowrance/Eagle suction cup mounts, but thier transducers are usually much smaller water profile than Humminbirds. My experience with HB is that it usually comes off within the first 1/2 hour as the rubber adjusts to temp, etc. After that, they hold well. A clean smooth surface is a must. I have had my large SI transducer hold at 20mph (top speed) on my lite alum boat.
 

kandil

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Aug 8, 2008
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567
Re: Lowrance HDS-5

The current draw is
HDS-5 0.7A at 13V with back light on 0.4A with light off
the transducer on this unit is 3 times the size of my old eagle unit The suction cup would have to be very strong for it to hold this size at high speed it'll probably work trolling
 

cougtoad

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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

I talked to the lowrance techs again and they said they actually do not make a suction mount for the dual frequency transducer (too big). I did see a clamp (attaches to the upper part of the transom) at one of the local stores with an adjustable length rod to mount the transducer on.

They also said the portable power pack comes with its own single freq (200 kHz) suction cup mounted transducer that will work with the HDS-5. The tech said he thought it would work OK for shallower salt water fishing, but if Im going deep I might want to figure out a way to mount the dual freq transducer.

Thanks for the numbers on the draw. I'll have to check the available batteries and see what the capicity is on them. :)
 

Boatist

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Apr 22, 2002
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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

Kandil
The 83 khz uses the 200khz tranducer. Yes it greater detail than the 50 khz but much less detail than running the 200 khz frequency.
You do understand the 120 degree cone angle mean you will see more fish out to the side of the of the boat but will see less fish near or on the bottom anytime the bottom is uneven. If your fishing area with big dropoffs or big rocks or a sloped bottom you will not see fish along the side of the rock or fish in the deeper parts of the eneven bottom or fish deeper than the shallowest water the 120 see. The fish will be there but you will not be able to see them because they are in the dead zone. You would not be able to see fish along side a wreck or other sea bed structures. You can see fish above the wreck and above the seabead structure but not along side. The wider the beam the bigger the dead zone. For mid water fish or fish up off the bottom then you will see more fish but you have no idea where they are. Are they way to the left or to the right or under the boat. If you see the fish in the 200 khz 20 degree beam then they are pretty straight down under your transducer.

http://www.a-guide-to-florida-bass-fishing.com/fish-finder.html

Wider cone angle will diffently make better fish arches because of the way the arches are formed. Also since the fish is in the 120 cone longer you will see fish at higher speeds.


Cougtoad
The 200 khz transducer is suggest as best down to 900 feet, maybe a little less in saltwater. The 83khz uses the 200Khz 20 degree transducer but is suppose to cover 120 degrees.

Deeper than 900 feet then they suggest the 50 khz 37 degree transducer.
 

kandil

Chief Petty Officer
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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

I hope that using the split screen will help to see more fish
and if I can see my bait that would be helpful to locate them.
 

cougtoad

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Feb 20, 2009
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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

Sorry in advance if these are dumb questions... :)

Ive read through this thread a few times, read the attachments provided, and scoured the lowrance site. I've learned alot, but the more i learn the more confused i get.

The HDS systems advertise a Broadband Sounder onboard. If I understand Broadband correctly it means that the frequency can be adjusted over a range. But the HDS comes with what they call a dual frequency transducer (the 200/50) or a dual search transducer (the 200/83). In either case, isnt the frequency fixed at those settings? And if so, how is this considered Broadband?

Also, what is the difference between dual frequency/dual search? Does this mean that the 200/50 is actually 2 differnt tranducers packed into one and the 200/83 is a single 200 kHz transducer with the capabilty of also using 83 kHz at the same time? And does it matter?

Lastly,and most importantly I guess, is what will the end benefit be?

Does the unit combine the information received from the 2 differnt freqeuncies into a readout with more/better information?

Or will the only benefits be (1)being able to switch between one frequency or the other depending on the situation and/or (2) using the split screen to figure out whether the fish are under you or out to the sides?


Thanks to anyone willing to answer and help educate me... :)
 

Boatist

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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

Kandil
The 200/50 Khz transducer I belive is 200 khz with a 12 degree cone angle and 50 khz with a 37 degree cone angle. This is the deep water transducer and cone angle Lowrance has been useing for years. The cone angles are the narrower ones that work best in very deep saltwater. I not sure if your unit can use the 83 khz frequency.
My gess is that it can not as Lowrance says 200/50 khz.
Since the cone angle on the 50/200khz transducer are very narrow you will be able to see fish very deep. At 30 feet at 200khz you will see about a 6 foot circle under the boat. At 300 feet you will see a 60 foot circle under the boat.
With the 50khz transducer at 30 feet you will see about a 18 foot circle under the transducer and at 300 feet about a 180 foot circle under the transducer.
Did the unit you bought have the transducer in a bag with the transducer part number. If it does you can go to LEI and see the actual -3db 1/2 power point cone angles.

The 200 khz transducer now says "New 200/83 khz"
The Signal Frequency 200 khz 20 degree transducer that lowrance has been useing for years and saying up to 60 degrees they are still saying 60 degrees. Useing the same transducer at 83 khz they are saying 120 degrees. This transducer is really the standard 20 degree transducer rated at the industry standard -3db or half power point. Lowrance has for years been saying up to 60 degrees which is very misleading but not a outright lie. Every transducer has extra lobes and if rated at the -10 db 1/10 Power point would very close to 60 degree. In real world it is only 20 degrees transducer and the lobes out in the 60 degree range are only usabel very near the surface. I think they do sell more units with this misleading statments but less likely for me to buy as I like honest seller.

Cougtoad
Yes the frequency is fixed. The 50/200khz is actually two transducer in a single case. 200khz 12 degree cone and a 50khz 37 degree cone angle.

The 200/83 khz is a single transducer. I do not know the meaning of broadband but I took it to mean having a wide band of frequency. The 200 khz transducer is a 20 degree transducer so would see a 10 foot circle under the transducer at 30 feet deep. Lowrance will say it up to 60 degree but that is very misleading.
Lowrance say the 83khz is up to 120 degrees and I supect that is also misleading. More likely to be about 40 degrees at the -3db halfpower point.
I think you final statment is correct.

The benefit as I see it in the new unit is the the digital signal looks sharper and more defined with less noise at least in the simulator. It uses lower power but still has great depth. Lower power means the unit will work better in shallow water and have fewer transducer failures. It looks like the 200/83 khz has twice the cone angle of older 200khz units. The 83 khz unit is even a wider cone angle than the 50 khz unit and since it is a higher frequency will return a higher detail signal and more seperation than the 50 khz. 83khz will reach much deeper bottoms than the 200khz.

One thing I belive is that the units will work on all 3 frequency 200/83/50khz if you buy a second transducer. Then all you would have to pulg in the transducer that you want to use that day. However before I would buy would want to confirm that with Navico/Simrad/ Lowrance.

One thing for Sure with 8 High Tech Marine Companies around the world under Navico if they share ideas and technical data they should become the very best.
 

kandil

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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

Hello I found this answrs on Lowrance site about the transduser
Lowrance makes single frequency 200 KHz and dual frequency 50/200 KHz transducers. Most Lowrance sonar units today operate at 200 kHz (kilohertz), with a few using 50 kHz. There are advantages to each frequency, but for almost all freshwater applications and some saltwater applications, 200 kHz is the best choice. The Single Frequency transducer has a 200 KHz frequency with a 20-degree cone angle. This would be perfect in freshwater with maximum depths of 400 feet, it would also be good for shallow water (Bay area) fishing in saltwater. The single frequency transducer gives the best detail, works best in shallow water and at speed, and typically shows less "noise" and undesired echoes. Target definition is also better with these higher frequencies. This is the ability to display two fish as two separate echoes instead of one "blob" on the screen.
The Dual Frequency has both 200 KHz and 50 KHz. The 200 KHz is 12-degree and the 50 KHz is 35-degree. Typically, 50 kHz sonar (under the same conditions and power) can penetrate water to deeper depths than higher frequencies. This is due to water's natural ability to absorb sound waves. The rate of absorption is greater for higher frequency sound than it is for lower frequencies. Therefore, you'll generally find 50 kHz used in deeper saltwater applications. Also, 50 kHz transducers typically have wider coverage angles than 200 kHz transducers. This characteristic makes them useful in tracking multiple downriggers. Thus, even when these downriggers are in relatively shallow depths, 50 kHz is preferred by many fishermen.
In summary, the differences between these frequencies are:

200 KHz 50 KHz
Shallower depths Deeper depths
Narrow cone angle Wide cone angle
Better definition& target separation Less definition and target separation
Less noise susceptibility More noise susceptibility

The 200 kHz transducers have a 20 degree cone angle. However, your unit has the ability to go up to 60 degrees of fish coverage by adjusting your sensitivity
The cone angle of the 200 KHz side of the Dual Frequency Transducer is 12-degrees where as the cone angle of the single frequency 200 KHz transducer is 20-degrees. For example, if you were in 30 feet of water with the single frequency, you would be roughly seeing a 10-foot diameter on the floor of the lake. If you were using the 200 KHz side of the Dual Frequency transducer in 30 feet of water, you would be roughly seeing a 5 to 6 foot diameter on the floor of the lake.
 

cougtoad

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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

Thanks for all of the info. :)

I also found the link below on the Lowrance site. I think it is the earlier standalone version of the Broadband Sounder. This is the same as what the newer units have on board, I assume.

http://www.lowrance.com/en/Products...-Ethernetworking/Lowrance-Broadband-Sounder-1

Here's a couple of bullet points confirming what you said earlier:

Modifies the 200 kHz single-frequency transducer to also operate at 83 kHz for broader 120? coverage with more well-defined returns. (Note: 50/200 kHz transducers operate only at 50 kHz and 200 kHz with Broadband Sounder)

Automatic operation at any frequency selection, based on transducer employed: 83 and 200 kHz or 50 and 200 kHz
 

dingbat

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16,313
Re: Lowrance HDS-5

More info. on the Lowrance "broadband" sounder
http://www.motorboating.com/articleHtml.jsp?ID=1000062590

Check out the description of the Furnuo FCV1150. This ia a true broadband sonar.
The two-channel transceiver features what Furuno calls main bank pulse suppression, meaning the main sonar pulse is filtered out from the target return. This, combined with a pulse rate that has doubled to 3,000 per second, dramatically improves shallow-water operation, according to Eric Kunz, senior product development manager for Furuno. "With this new sounder, we get readings a foot and a half under the transducer, without losing the bottom," he says. This makes the FCV-1150 a good tool for navigation, since it can accurately monitor depths when running tracts of shallow water (think the Gulf of Mexico).

The two-channel configuration provides multi-frequency selection, but instead of fixed frequencies, the transceivers can be "slewed," which means they are infinitely adjustable, on the fly, with a slider control on the monitor. "You can set the frequency anywhere," says Kunz. "Sometimes things happen that are not tangible ? you may have weird noise at one frequency. Say you are at 50 kHz. You can look at 40 for a minute, then bring it back again. You can actually tune the transducer and the transceiver together for the best resolution."
 

kandil

Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 8, 2008
Messages
567
Re: Lowrance HDS-5

For the price if Lowrance dos what it says it can I will be very happy;)
and for my 18' CC Sea Pro it should be enough
Quote:from the motor boating's site
The Broadband Sounder 1 ($599) from Lowrance is an add-on to the company's 2007 units, and is available with the newest models. It uses a sophisticated sonar optimizer that generates clutter-free images of baitfish in shallow water and high bottom definition and target (fish) separation in several hundred feet of water, even if a boat is running at 4,500 rpm with a transom-mount transducer.

Raymarine's DSM400 ($2,795) takes the more-power approach. It's the company's first 3-kW sounder, a digital black box compatible with the company's new G-Series components. Equipped with four independent transceiver channels, frequency options include 28, 38 and 50 kHz, plus 185 and 200 kHz. The unit is scalable for frequency.

Furuno's first digital 3-kW sounder, the FCV-1150 ($4,000), is a stand-alone fish finder with a 12.1-inch display. The two-channel transceiver features what Furuno calls main bank pulse suppression, meaning the main sonar pulse is filtered out from the target return. This, combined with a pulse rate that has doubled to 3,000 per second, dramatically improves shallow-water operation
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

The gentleman at Gander Mountain says that the model with Lake Insight includes the US Basemap PLUS Lake insight (basically Lake Insight is an added package). Do we know if this is accurate? I was just wondering if you had to choose either us basemap OR Lake Insight. So close to purchasing this, especially with rumblings of Side View coming as an add on to this unit! ->



http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?fid=4&tid=48258&posts=13&mid=361752
 

kandil

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Aug 8, 2008
Messages
567
Re: Lowrance HDS-5

the base map is a 2D image and the Insight are a shaded maps and it looks kind like 3D cartography now built-in on select models hens the price deferents:D witch map to get depends on where you will fish
 
Joined
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Messages
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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

the base map is a 2D image and the Insight are a shaded maps and it looks kind like 3D cartography now built-in on select models hens the price deferents:D witch map to get depends on where you will fish

I get the difference between the two, my question was if I get the Lake Insight maps model, I only get the 5000 3d style maps, and if I get the US Basemaps model I get 100,000+ plus 2d style maps? The guy @ gander mountain said that the Lake Insight model has all of the US Basemaps stuff PLUS the 5000 extra insight style maps. Can anyone verify that? Oh, and by the way, here is the official press release for the side view:

http://www.lowrance.com/upload/Lowrance/Documents/PressReleases/Lowrance-Side-Viewing-Sonar-Press-Release-022009.pdf
 

cougtoad

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Feb 20, 2009
Messages
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Re: Lowrance HDS-5

Per Lowrance tech support:

The basemap comes standard with the unit. The Lake Insight is an add-on which gives you the additional detail on certian lakes, but the Insight package includes all of the standard basemaps.


Also, a little more info on the transducers...

The 83/200 is pretty much exacly the same transducer as the previous single frequency 200 kHz models (the connector may be different on some of the older transducers). The onboard Broadband sounder is what makes it a 'dual search' transducer. Other than that, it is exactly the same...size, mounts, etc. This transducer WILL fit a suction cup mount.

The 50/200 is the larger dual frequency transducer. The larger size does not fit the suction cup mount.

I also asked them about the side imaging. He siad not alot of info at this point, but that it will probably require a different transducer. Later this year they will be comong out with more details.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
17
Re: Lowrance HDS-5

Well, I have to buy it now! I sold my other color console finder today to make room, this way I HAVE to replace it. DARN IT!
 
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