Epoxy pros needed

[Tim Frank]

I have a question on the use of epoxy resin that is totally non-related to boats....so I think that this is the correct place to post....although in the back of my mind I am thinking that the boat repair section may have more epoxy wizards hanging about...

I have to do a repair on a pair of skis....snow skis, not water skis.
The top layer, a plastic molding, is delaminating....and of course the warranty has expired and the manufacturer (who shall remain nameless, because Head usually makes good stuff) wants nothing to do with them. I thus have two options: do nothing and just ride them until they fall apart....or do a repair myself.
They are low mileage, high end, great performing skis that i would prefer to salvage if I can.
To keep my question as simple as possible, as background, what I need to do is try to get epoxy into the void between the two layers that are separating. The gap is about 1/64" wide or less, and the depth of separation might be 1" max, and the linear length I will have to work on, for both skis, both edges, say 48" total . I have the basic tech skills to properly mask, prep, and apply release agents to the places that I do not want or need glued.
I need to get epoxy into the void between the layers.

My question is ....what can you do with epoxy to decrease its viscosity and increase wicking ability?
Heating is an option, but might cut open time too much.
I can divide the whole repair into 4 parts....one ski/one edge at a time....which means I would only be faced with c. 12" of repair to do at a time, which might mitigate the heat/open time equation.

Any thoughts?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Epoxy pros needed

Any thoughts?

Ayuh,.... Trash'em before you break your leg,.. or Worse....

Skis are like a big leaf spring,... Dynamic from end to end....
Your "Repair" will cause a stiff point, which will either cause them to Snap, or delaminate elsewhere....
Possibly Catastrophically,... No doubt at the Worse possible Time....

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Epoxy pros needed

I'm trying to visualize the problem. If it's a plastic moulding that's coming loose then there's nothing to worry about structurally.

Don't use your run of the mill hardware store epoxy (very viscous and just not as strong as what's available elsewhere). For airplane building I use MGS epoxy, it has a much lower viscosity and wets out great. As far as I know it can only be had in a gallon kit though, which would set you back over a hundred bucks. A good compromise would be West Systems epoxy, which is sold in some boating stores and is available in a quart kit, with either a fast or slow hardener (use the fast, keep the mixed quantity down to about a half of a bathroom dixie-cup, and you've got about 15 or 20 minutes of working time). Once you get the epoxy in place use some boards to apply even clamping pressure, and let it set up overnight.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Epoxy pros needed

Nor truly structural....the top sheet is decorative and protective only.
I use West routinely and have stock of 105 resin and both 205 and 206 hardeners.
The actual extent of repair will likely require less than the "half dixie cup" for all four ski edges.
I am good with epoxy straight up, but am wondering whether anyone has experience with additives that would lower viscosity and increase wicking ability.
Itr may be that I am better with one of the high end cyanoacrylates for what I am doing. They are great at wicking into narrow spaces and have sufficient strength for this application.
But I would probably rather use epoxy if I can thin it out somehow....maybe a heat gun?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Epoxy pros needed

Ayuh,.... Trash'em before you break your leg,.. or Worse....

Skis are like a big leaf spring,... Dynamic from end to end....
Your "Repair" will cause a stiff point, which will either cause them to Snap, or delaminate elsewhere....
Possibly Catastrophically,... No doubt at the Worse possible Time....

First time I've disagreed with Bondo....and only because it has nothing to do with boats....
Top layer on these skis is absolutely cosmetic and protective....a great analogy would be the cover on an outboard....you could run it with out the cover, but if you could salvage the cover, you would for a host of reasons. I'm sure you wouldn't trash the outboard....
I am in the Canadian Ski Patrol during the winter and am not about to risk breaking a limb using skis that were repaired unsafely....I pull too many folks off the hill with bends and breaks as it is; not about to do it to myself.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Epoxy pros needed

I use West routinely and have stock of 105 resin and both 205 and 206 hardeners.

Ahh, I'm preachin to the choir.

The actual extent of repair will likely require less than the "half dixie cup" for all four ski edges.

Don't know if you've ever experienced exotherm with a large batch of epoxy. The heat given off from the curing reaction makes it go faster and faster, giving off more and more heat. Pretty soon you've got a hot glob of solid epoxy and (if using a plastic mixing container) a melted container. The reason I mentioned this is that I know from experience that West with the fast hardener will readily exotherm.

I am good with epoxy straight up, but am wondering whether anyone has experience with additives that would lower viscosity and increase wicking ability.
But I would probably rather use epoxy if I can thin it out somehow....maybe a heat gun?

Well.... you can thin it with a small amount of ethanol, I've done it for some non-structural type applications. I'd be leery of that for what you're talking about though, might not be as strong of a repair.

Heat will lower the viscosity and make it flow much better, a hair dryer is just right, don't want to go any hotter than that. Blow hot air on the area being repaired as you're working epoxy into the nooks and crannies. Also, if you can come up with one, a syringe (without the needle of course) is a great epoxy delivery system.

I am in the Canadian Ski Patrol during the winter and am not about to risk breaking a limb using skis that were repaired unsafely....I pull too many folks off the hill with bends and breaks as it is;

You've got my attention and respect. I haven't skiid in years, but when I did the ski patrol folks were great (I never had to be pulled off a hill, thank goodness).

 

[Bondo]

Re: Epoxy pros needed

Top layer on these skis is absolutely cosmetic and protective....

Ayuh,... Obviously, You have a pretty good grasp of what's Up,....

I guess My point is,...
Just the Epoxy for the repair will change the dynamic stresses of the ski....
Regardless of whether the Skin is functional or Not....

1 other thought,...
Epoxy, just like every other Glue works Best on prepared surfaces,...aka. Sanded....
How are you going to Prep te surfaces you can't get too...

Good Luck with them,+ Enjoy the Skiing...

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Epoxy pros needed

I am at school right now waiting for a composite project to cure. There isn't much you can do to increase the wicking of epoxy, but you can add microballons to thicken it (not for structural applications) or ground up fiberglass fibers to thicken it where you need a filler that can withstand structural loads.

Heating it would decrease the cure time, but if you don't add so much hardener, you can still have runny epoxy (a little bit more than normal, not much) with a cure time that doesn't have you hopping around like a rabbit.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Epoxy pros needed

Commercial grade E6000 is what I suggest. It is a stylene based silicone (smells like the old model glue). Once cured, it is about the same consistency of the plastic ringlets that holds 6 pack cans together. It is self leveling. Set the ski on edge and squeeze a bead down the area that needs sealed. With it being self leveling, it will run down into the void. After about 5 minuets, clamp the area together. What oozes out can be trimmed with a knife. The stuff is flexible. I've used this same stuff to glue soles back onto tennis shoes. Or you can use the 3M5200. It also stays flexible and it is designed for use in and around water. Just a thought, sometimes being set on a specific adhesive does not mean it is exactly right for the project. Good Luck.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Epoxy pros needed

I know it is alot of money but Gluvit made by Marine Tex is "creepy" and it flows deep into seams. That is exactly what it is designed to do and will probably do the repair (or band aid).

The construction process of the skis was performed using epoxy, heat and pressure within the mold. I can see the gluvit doing the job but as bond-o aluded to ...... the stress points of the ski's will be changed.

Is this a place where a commercial ski shop would use P-tex for the fill and repair?