1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

[bigredinohio]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

 

[chrishayes]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

I will post them tonight, promise! I got the deck boards all fitted with the 45degree overlaps and rounded over the edges of the bilge compartment. All I need to do now before putting the deck in for good is drill 2 holes through the PB that I filled in the two forward outside stringers, slap a piece of pvc in there then glass the underside of the deck boards. I am going to try to do that through the week so that this weekend I can get some help to fit the cap back on before installing any of the decking. I will have to put the cap on, then glue and screw two of the 4' sections down, let that cure then raise the cap back off to do the bow sections that are under the bow seating walk thru.

Its a plan, ambitous one, but its a plan

 

[chrishayes]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

My latest predicament is the dreaded, foam or not to foam? I had planned to use the pink board that I use as my templates as the floatation but I am justnot too thrilled with actually doing it...one, for time, two for work, and three, why bother? Is it going to be enough to matter and will it lead to problems down the road. I know this is a fairly new product to use in boats so I just dont know if there are long term issues. The one that immediately jumps out at me is all the little foam chunks and beads that will inevitably end up in the bilge which could do either of two bad things. First, the little beads could clog my bilge pump then the disaster would be a large chunk breaking off and clogging one or more of the drainage holes that I have put in I just cant see the pros outwaying the cons here in terms of my boat is built to LAST. Can the same be said for the foam?

I know it is used in foundation work for homes and buildings so it "should" hold up fine. What do you guys think?

 

[racinrc14]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Let me preface my reply by admitting that I am a complete novice to the boat building/re-building hobby. However, I have done a lot of reading on the subject, and I have a boat that I plan to eventually re-build, and I have a basic understanding of fiberglass techniques and boat construction. With that said:

I say forget the foam. I know the USCG requires it on smaller boats (under 21ft, someone correct me?), but are they going to tear up your deck to inspect it? If, heaven forbid, your boat ever capsizes or sinks, yes the foam will serve to keep your boat at the surface (so one would assume), but if that ever happens, the boat will be waterlogged and nearly a write off anyway. Also, if the worst should ever happen, there would be no foam mess to centend with should you decide to put the boat back in service after a disaster. The only possible advantage that I would consider is the sound insulation it may provide. But the same insulation could be provided by sound-mat merely glued to the top of the underside of the deck boards, well away from the actual bottom of the hull, where any water might collect (not on yours, though!) I personally wouldn't contaminate your outstanding construction with it, though.

I have yet to see ANY type of foam available to average schmoes like us be completely water resistant. It all retains some degree of moisture.

You asked, so there's my $.02.

-Tommy

 

[chrishayes]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Let me preface my reply by admitting that I am a complete novice to the boat building/re-building hobby. However, I have done a lot of reading on the subject, and I have a boat that I plan to eventually re-build, and I have a basic understanding of fiberglass techniques and boat construction. With that said:

I say forget the foam. I know the USCG requires it on smaller boats (under 21ft, someone correct me?), but are they going to tear up your deck to inspect it? If, heaven forbid, your boat ever capsizes or sinks, yes the foam will serve to keep your boat at the surface (so one would assume), but if that ever happens, the boat will be waterlogged and nearly a write off anyway. Also, if the worst should ever happen, there would be no foam mess to centend with should you decide to put the boat back in service after a disaster. The only possible advantage that I would consider is the sound insulation it may provide. But the same insulation could be provided by sound-mat merely glued to the top of the underside of the deck boards, well away from the actual bottom of the hull, where any water might collect (not on yours, though!) I personally wouldn't contaminate your outstanding construction with it, though.

I have yet to see ANY type of foam available to average schmoes like us be completely water resistant. It all retains some degree of moisture.

You asked, so there's my $.02.

-Tommy

That is exactly my thoughts! Just cant come up with a GOOD reason to have it...especially the fact that this boat will likely almost never see any water that is more than 10' deep outside of the occasional long vacation to Erie, or the Keys which I would only even attempt on very mild weather days and never more than a few miles offshore beyond the reefs.

You also bring up a good point, if the boat WERE to capsize, I could have it reclaimed and I would like to think that I literally could flip it over put some fans on it, replace or repair motor then plug her back in the water:redface: I mean, that is truly why I am going to such great lengths to waterproof this thing. Not for the capsize event, but longevity in general. This boat has been around for quite a bit longer than even I have and due to this build, will be here even longer. Why F that up with foam? Of any type...

Forgot to mention though that there is foam in the cap. I would say that 90% of this boats foam from the factory was in the cap. Only a few small bricks of block foam were under the deck orignially. Perhaps that answers my question.

I like your idea of adding a sound deadener on the underside of the deck. Have anything in mind that doesnt break down? I guess I could use the pink foam but that kinda puts me in the same senario as before with the foam bogers.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

If it were my project, I'd go with layering in sheets of the pink or blue foam to fill as much of the voids below deck as I could. That type of foam does NOT absorb water. I figure if it's the difference beween sinking and not sinking......

 

[racinrc14]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

I like to use Dynamat products. They make several different types, and I believe one of them is foam-free! Actually, I think it's made of rubber sheet. You might also do a search for Audimute products. The stuff they make is for construction to sound deaden interior walls and such. Dynamat is expensive, from what I remember. I'm not sure about the audimute stuff, though.

I have yet to see ANY type of foam that doesn't absorb, or trap, some moisture. Foam, even closed-cell, contains voids that if not coated, will provide hiding spots for H2O. There are some foam derivatives, used in the aerospace industry, that contain additives that 'coat' the cells and fill the voids within the foam. But they are both very expensive and unavailable to people like us. Anywhere ambient air can travel will contain moisure in vapor form. As temp. and pressure changes, water will condense out of the air and collect. The fewer places for it to hide, the better. I say, if you must put flotation in your new boat, put it under the cap or in the bow where any damage caused by moisture will be minimal.

 

[chrishayes]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

I like to use Dynamat products. They make several different types, and I believe one of them is foam-free! Actually, I think it's made of rubber sheet. You might also do a search for Audimute products. The stuff they make is for construction to sound deaden interior walls and such. Dynamat is expensive, from what I remember. I'm not sure about the audimute stuff, though.

I have yet to see ANY type of foam that doesn't absorb, or trap, some moisture. Foam, even closed-cell, contains voids that if not coated, will provide hiding spots for H2O. There are some foam derivatives, used in the aerospace industry, that contain additives that 'coat' the cells and fill the voids within the foam. But they are both very expensive and unavailable to people like us. Anywhere ambient air can travel will contain moisure in vapor form. As temp. and pressure changes, water will condense out of the air and collect. The fewer places for it to hide, the better. I say, if you must put flotation in your new boat, put it under the cap or in the bow where any damage caused by moisture will be minimal.

Yeah, im gonna go with NO on the dynamat. I could buy a new boat for what it would take to cover the underside of my deck. I think I am about set on either of the two options. One, no foam period under the deck. ANd two, cutting a single layer of foam to fit the underside of the deck and incasing it in glass. The last option is just about out of the question due to the fact that I am NOT going to buy anymore epoxy. So once I get the bottoms all glassed I will see how much resin I have left, then decide if there is enough to do both the top of the deck and all the tabbing. It is unlikely that this boat will see any foam added by me. I will keep the foam that is in the cap which that should be enough to keep the boat from totally sinking as llike I said, this is where the majority of the foam in the boat was originally.

Sorry I did not posts pics last night, my wife has the camera at work showing her friends pictures of her positive pregnancy test I did get two sections of the deck underside glassed in last night.

 

[bigredinohio]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Sorry I did not posts pics last night, my wife has the camera at work showing her friends pictures of her positive pregnancy test I did get two sections of the deck underside glassed in last night.

Congrats

That's great news!

 

[chrishayes]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Congrats

That's great news!

Yeah it was pretty cool getting that glass work done!

 

[bigredinohio]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

I torn on your foam issue. I'm leaning toward adding none however, foam in the floor does make a good sound buffer with the additon of added floatation with the amount of glasswork you did.

If I were on the spot, I'd say no but you must also think about a little one in the boat also.

 

[bigredinohio]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Yeah it was pretty cool getting that glass work done!

Ahh, you got me before I could edit your quote.

 

[chrishayes]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

nah, ill make a mold and glass a big bubble to put the kid in and attach a beacon on top for recovery! Now I just gotta come up with a way to get fresh air in there.

I saw an add for my boat where the thing was swamped with the plug pulled and 8 grown men standing in the boat. It was sank to the gunwhales where all the foam is. That and there just wasnt much foam undernieth...I dont know. I guess it will just happen or it wont. It will be an on the spot decision.

 

[racinrc14]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Yeah, I thought I remembered the Dynamat being fairly expensive. I only used a small amount in a trunk once to keep people from hearing the screaming........I mean, uhh, to keep the road noise to a minimum. It's actually nice stuff, it really made a difference in the car I put it in. Some race car guys use it for heat dissipation (think header collectors under the floor right where your feet are), which is kind of neat also. I actually like the sound the hull makes as it glides through the water though, especially when we are tied up in a cove with a slight chop lapping up on it. Kind of romantic, sometime puts the wifey in the mood.......

How's your back doing? I'll be in the same boat (no pun intended) when it comes time to start on mine, just wondering how you are coping.

Congrats on the news, kids are awesome! I have three, and not one of the lousy little so and so's will help me on the boat!! Just kidding, they're great, and they all love boating.

 

[chrishayes]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Yeah, I thought I remembered the Dynamat being fairly expensive. I only used a small amount in a trunk once to keep people from hearing the screaming........I mean, uhh, to keep the road noise to a minimum. It's actually nice stuff, it really made a difference in the car I put it in. Some race car guys use it for heat dissipation (think header collectors under the floor right where your feet are), which is kind of neat also. I actually like the sound the hull makes as it glides through the water though, especially when we are tied up in a cove with a slight chop lapping up on it. Kind of romantic, sometime puts the wifey in the mood.......

How's your back doing? I'll be in the same boat (no pun intended) when it comes time to start on mine, just wondering how you are coping.

Congrats on the news, kids are awesome! I have three, and not one of the lousy little so and so's will help me on the boat!! Just kidding, they're great, and they all love boating.

yeah, Im a car guy as well so I know all about boom mat but it aint for boats. At least not mine$$$. I also dont mind the noise. Actually, I have been on very few boats in my life and I couldnt tell you which had foam and which didnt...afterall, THERE IS WATER UNDER YOUR BOAT. Know what I mean? The layer of foam I was talking of using would only be for sound deadening but I just dont think 1/2" foam is gonna make that much of a difference.

And the back, buddy, it is a daily grind. I have just gotten used to it. There just comes a point in any work that I do that I have to stop. If I dont, like I didnt on the 2 layers of 1708 on the outer stringers, then my back stops me. For how ever long it sees fit. There is no sucking it up with a back injury, when its flared up, you do nothing, except hurt. The worst thing is that there really is nothing on a boat resto that you can do that doesnt involve contorting your back in a painful way. I cant even think of one. Sorry...

THanks for the congrats on the baby. We have tried for 8 years

 

[chrishayes]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

I am long overdue for an update. SO here goes.

Before I started messing with the deck wood I had to finish up all the last minute items that needed addressed before sealing it up. I had drilled all the through hull holes and the stringer drains a 1/4" larger than needed. THis was to allow me to fill them in with epoxy pb, then later to redrill them to the right size so that there would be no wood epxposed to water.

In my last order to uscomposites I decided to try some 1/4" strand mat to add to my PB mixture. So I mixed it in for the first time and went WAY overboard with it. Note: the individual strands look very small but once it is wet with epoxy it expands and breaks down into what can only be described as spider webs. Use much less than you think you should! After getting the mix right I proceeded to fill the holes in. I had to back the holes with wax paper taped to the outside of the transom so that I could ensure that the whole hole was filled with no voids.

This will create a smooth flat surface on the exterior of the transom and release easily from the epoxy. So I filled the holes as you can see here.

It worked great, no issues at all removing the tape and wax paper. Now all I have to do is wait till the cap is back on and redrill to the size that I need for the bolts and drains. Here is the finished drains that I put in the stringers leading to the bilge. As you can see I went with the pvc. Just an added bit of waterproofness.

Heres a close up.

 

[chrishayes]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Then, it was on to the deck ply. This is a pretty straight forward process so there isnt much need to document it but basically I just placed a sheet of ply on sawhorses and clamped my template to it.

Then it was just a matter of custom fitting each piece to the best of my abilities. After that, I FINALLY laid out the 10oz twill cloth that has been collecting dust for 5 months onto the decking to cut it to fit. I decided to make the runs the full length of the deck instead of going side to side and having 4 or more seams. It will make the wetout process a little more of a pain but there will be less seams to grind later for paint prep. I also made the seams that I do have out towards the gunwhales so that they will be under seats mostly and not as visible.

With what I had left over I used to wrap the underside of the deck ply. I only had enough to do these two pieces so I regrettably have to use 1708 on the remaining two...as you can see by the wavy lined overlapped sections this was done with scraps. It was a pain.

Oh, and here is a picture of what I did to level out my bilge area so that I didnt have to do a thick layup of glass. This is the mix of epoxy, cabosil and csm strand. It is pretty stout once cured!

And if you havent seen by my other posts lately, I have become sensitive to epoxy and broke out into a severe rash on my arm. So, I am going to wait a few more days until it goes away to work with it again. This will allow me to get the cap back on this weekend so that I can make sure the hull hasnt deformed, then install two of the 4 pieces of ply. Then I will have to take it back off to finish the other 2. Then its paint time.

Anyone try using rubberized undercoater? It is paintable once cured. I wonder if it would be better than the little beads that you add as a flexible non slip product. It is 5 bucks a can for the duplicolor stuff. Any thoughts?

 

[ben2go]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Work looks great.

Rubberdized under coating remains tacky after it's sprayed on,unless there's something new out that I am unaware of.I like to use gray bilge paint everywhere that's not going to be seen or is going to be covered up.It's usually holds up well to standing water.

 

[racinrc14]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

THanks for the congrats on the baby. We have tried for 8 years

No kidding? Well, really then, congrats!

I like the idea of Rhino-Lining on a deck. I know a couple who had Ziebart spray it on the roof of their pop-up camper for waterproofing. Worked like a champ, and made a good sound insulator also! I don't remember it being tacky, though, but it's not an undercoater. It can be dyed different colors, also, they used a cream color which looked a lot like yellowed gelcoat!

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: 1973 wellcraft 165 sport airslot project w/ pics

Congrats

That's great news!

COOL there Chris !! but all you would have had to do is ask, I would have given yea one of mine !!! lol

Congrads John