Water in Bellows

[Shouldn't Have]

Ok, here goes my first post. I have twin 1983 Volvo AQ260As with 280 legs that I purchased last year. Decided I should do some maintenence work this year before launching. I pulled the u-joint bellows and both had a small amount of water in them, less than an once or so. The boat is a fresh water boat. The u-joints have a small amount of surface rust, but appear to be solid. There was plenty of grease around the shaft and bearing seal. Water does not appear to be mixed with the grease. I would like to pull off the bearing seal so i can see if there is any water behind it but cannot figure out how the seal comes out. Can someone tell me how to remove this without damaging it?

Also, is it possible that I may get lucky and not have to replace these bearings? There is absolutly no play in the shaft, so I was happy about that.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[Maclin]

Re: Water in Bellows

Just my opinion here, but I would just check the oil in the drive. If it has no evidence of water intrusion then you are good I would think. That small amount of water could be condensation depending on how long it has been since all of that was new, although if it is collecting in the bottom of the bellows it is more like some got in somehow along the way or it just started and was due for the change.

 

[Rocky_Road]

Re: Water in Bellows

...I would like to pull off the bearing seal so i can see if there is any water behind it but cannot figure out how the seal comes out. Can someone tell me how to remove this without damaging it?

Thanks,
Scott

I don't think that that will be possible.

If you must pull the seal, then be prepared to replace it with a new one.

From your description...I wouldn't be too worried about the gimbal bearing, or the seal.

Just my $.02...and I'm sure that I will get 'flamed' for it!

Happy boating!

 

[captmello]

Re: Water in Bellows

Here's the parts list with the seals you would need. I agree you would want to replace them if you removed them.

http://www.volvopentastore.com/CONNECTING_COMPONENTS_AQ_DRIVE_280/dm/*******.101831019--**********.147211679--store_id.366--view_id.325226

If there is no play in the shaft and no excessive noise coming from the bell housing, I'll bet your good to go.

I replaced mine last year and there was no question they were bad when the grinding noise began. You grease those bearings from inside the boat.

Make sure you replace the bellows and the orings between the upper and intermediate before reassembly.

 

[Shouldn't Have]

Re: Water in Bellows

Thanks for the responses. It is always good to get a second opinion. The drive oil was good when I drained it. But just to be sure, I bought some stuff to rig up a pressure and vacuum test once the upper gear unit is back on. I may start up the engines before I reinstall the upper gear unit to confirm that there are no unusual sounds coming from the bell housing. I don't recall any sounds from last year, but you never know.

Make sure you replace the bellows and the orings between the upper and intermediate before reassembly.

Already got the new bellows and o-rings, also new water pickup hose and connector for one of the drives. I need to paint some parts of the drives (dang weather is not cooperating) before reinstalling everything.
Thanks! Hope to be boating soon...

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Water in Bellows

I wouldn't be too worried about the gimbal bearing

I wouldn't either since it doesn't have one

 

[Shouldn't Have]

Re: Water in Bellows

Well, bad news... I started the starboard engine without the upper gear unit on. Everything sounded good in the boat. Went outside and got next to the shaft, what do I hear, clank, clank, clank.... crap. Looks like the starboard bearings are bad. Shut it down and started the port motor, sounds good in the boat, get outside growl, growl, growl... crap. Looks like the port bearings are bad. So now I have two engines to pull and work on.

I tried to separate the u-joints from the upper gear units so I could have those inspected, but was unsuccessful. I think I'm going to make some calls and just have the whole upper unit checked and inspected by a shop.
Guess I'm not going to get in the water before Memorial Day.

-Scott

 

[captmello]

Re: Water in Bellows

That sucks!! This is my experience last summer with my "new to me" boat.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=265021

Are you doing the work yourself? If so I would love to see photos and descriptions as you go, Could be helpful to others down the road.

If your not doing the work yourself, might want to pick up some overtime to cover the labor on that job.

Let us know what happens.

 

[Shouldn't Have]

Re: Water in Bellows

captmello,
How do you get the ujoint out of the upper gear housing. On one of my units, I was able to separate the gear for the housing, but the ujoint still has the gear on the end. I see that there is a allen bolt there, but that will not budge. Did you have problems with that? On the other one, I don't really know what happened. The small casing separated one way, but I can't get the gear out.
Oh well.

I read your post, did you need any special tools to remove the bearings and seals?

And where did you get ujoints for $50? The ones I found are $378!!

 

[captmello]

Re: Water in Bellows

I see that there is a allen bolt there, but that will not budge. Did you have problems with that?

IF your talking about #33 in this link, If you remove that bolt the ujoint assembly should slide right out of the gear assembly. I believe I put the ujoints in a vice to hold it in place. I recall that the bolt and large thick washer #34,should be replaced as well, however I reused mine with loctight on the bolt. Can't say if that will haunt me in the future or not.

http://www.volvopentastore.com/UPPER_GEAR_UNIT_DRIVE_280/dm/*******.346397344--**********.609560527--store_id.366--view_id.315594

On the other one, I don't really know what happened. The small casing separated one way, but I can't get the gear out.
Oh well.

Not sure what your saying here.

need any special tools to remove the bearings and seals?

No, only a good snap ring pliers.

And where did you get ujoints for $50? The ones I found are $378!!

All you need is two of #28 in the link, 53.32 ea., those are the complete ujoint. You may be looking at the full assembly with the yokes and all.

Hope this helps.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Water in Bellows

I would take your drive shaft and some new u-joints to a machine shop and let them do it. They do hundreds of these and have all the proper tools to press everything in and out.

 

[Shouldn't Have]

Re: Water in Bellows

IF your talking about #33 in this link, If you remove that bolt the ujoint assembly should slide right out of the gear assembly. I believe I put the ujoints in a vice to hold it in place. I recall that the bolt and large thick washer #34,should be replaced as well, however I reused mine with loctight on the bolt. Can't say if that will haunt me in the future or not.

Yep #33 is the one. I could not get that to budge budge. I called a volvo shop, they will repair the ujoints and inspect the upper gear unit for $165. I figure at $110 for parts, I'll just let the professionals do that, I'd have well over 2 hours in that job, so its worth the $55 labor, This is all times 2 of course.

Not sure what your saying here.

It's the casing that the bolt 36 slides through. It slide off the seal the wrong way and the ujoint is still in the upper housing. Not my problem now

No, only a good snap ring pliers.

Got a set of those. So how does the seal come off, just grab and pull?

Wow, I'm feeling overwhelmed!

 

[Shouldn't Have]

Re: Water in Bellows

I would take your drive shaft and some new u-joints to a machine shop and let them do it. They do hundreds of these and have all the proper tools to press everything in and out.

Bruce--are you just talking about the ujoint shaft? I decided to have a professional look at the whole upper gear box and ujoints.

Do I need special tools to pull the bearings off of the shaft in the intermediate housing? Or do those slide out once the seal and snap rings are removed?

Thanks -- Scott

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Water in Bellows

It has been almost 20 years since I had the drive you have. I believe at the time, i just took the upper gearbox off including the yokes and brought it in. I may have had a marine shop do that one for me

 

[Maclin]

Re: Water in Bellows

The front of the upper unit is a separate piece and is called the Clamp Ring. That is what needs to come off to get at the bolt holding the yoke to the bearing I believe. Hopefully Don S can keep us on the sane path here.

 

[captmello]

Re: Water in Bellows

Do I need special tools to pull the bearings off of the shaft in the intermediate housing? Or do those slide out once the seal and snap rings are removed?

Reread my thread. Don told me to pound out the shaft with a "Dead blow hammer" I have a bunch of hammers but don't know what a dead blown hammer is. Maybe he was kidding around with me. I used my 3 lbs sledge.


http://www.volvopentastore.com/CONNECTING_COMPONENTS_AQ_DRIVE_280/dm/*******.346397344--**********.980668983--store_id.366--view_id.327430

Remove the seal #71 and snap ring #68 on the engine side and seal #69 and snap ring #67, the smaller one on the shaft in front of the bearing, on the outdrive side.

At this point you should be able to pound out the engine side bearing by pounding on the end of the shaft itself. the front bearing and shaft will be out now.

Once these are out, you can remove the rest of the retaining rings #68, there are two, one is a stop for the seal, the other is all the way in retaining the bearing. Once these are out, you can pound the rear bearing out with just about anything that will fit though the housing and a hammer.

Putting the new bearings in is not as easy as that but not to tough. All the snap rings were frustrating for me took some patience. I didn't have a good snap ring pliers. Need to be strong and long enough.

Volvo shop, they will repair the ujoints and inspect the upper gear unit for $165. I figure at $110 for parts, I'll just let the professionals do that, I'd have well over 2 hours in that job, so its worth the $55 labor, This is all times 2 of course.

Nothing wrong with that, I spent quite a bit of time hammering out those ujoint parts.

Keep us posted on your progress.

BTW, what kind of boat do you have that you need 520hp?

Best of luck!!!

 

[Shouldn't Have]

Re: Water in Bellows

Don told me to pound out the shaft with a "Dead blow hammer" I have a bunch of hammers but don't know what a dead blown hammer is.

A dead blow hammer is a rubber coated hammer about the size of the 3lb sledge, but it has some kind of sand or gravel in it instead of being solid metal.

Took the ujoints to the marine shop...Good news, he said that both sets where still good. That'll save some cash!

Got all of the other parts on order, should arrive on Monday.

BTW, what kind of boat do you have that you need 520hp?

It is a 27 foot 1983 Tiara 2700 Continental. The thing is a tank, don't know if you know anything about tiara's but they sure don't make a cheap hull! Bought it last spring, a step up from an 18 foot searay. I plan on having this thing for a long time, that's why I want to make sure I get this right!

Thanks for your help! I'll provide updates as progress continues.

 

[Shouldn't Have]

Re: Water in Bellows

Finally got around to working on the bearings!

Pics are attached! It wasn't too bad of a job. About 6 hours for both engines on the upper gear boxes, the six bolts in the transom and disconnecting the engine wires and components.

1 hour removing both engines.

5 hours removing seals, snap rings, shaft bearings and reinstalling. The snap rings were not fun. I guess my snap ring pliers were not that good. Spent over an hour on just one of them!

1 hour putting both engines back in.

Still need to reattach everything, so it hasn't been tested yet...

Those six bolts through the transom were a nightmare on both engines. Not sure if they have ever been removed, but they were in there very tight and the heads were corroded, so that was fun trying to get the socket on good, without rounding the heads, which were already somewhat rounded

Outdrive with plate removed to get to bolts and shift cable.
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29620&d=1244040084

Upper gear box off, steering helmet removed and six bolts finally out! An easy 3 hours spent on the bolts.
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29621&d=1244040100

Engines in the boat.
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29622&d=1244040116

Ground wires to remove from the bellhousing. 3 bolts had wires attached. Also large wire harness for rest of engine. Starter had 2 wires attached that needed removed.
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29623&d=1244040139

Don't forget about the fuel hose
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29624&d=1244040150

More to come...

 

[Shouldn't Have]

Re: Water in Bellows

More pics...

Two hoses to the power steering.
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29625&d=1244040999

There goes on engine, look at it fly!
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29626&d=1244041009

Engine on ground, lets get to work.
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29627&d=1244041020

Bellhousing removed, that was easy. Six large bolts on the bellhousing, 5 small bolts on the dust cover.
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29628&d=1244041032

Looking into the bellhousing, shaft in place. Need to remove seal on both sides. Then remove all snap rings. The inside just had one large one, the outside had two large ones and one small one. If you are going to do this, get a GOOD set of pliers, it will save you some time!! Then use a hammer, I used a dead blow like Don S. suggests, and the shaft came out pretty easy.
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29629&d=1244041042

I did not take any pictures of the shaft or bearings, my hands were too greasy.

More to come...

 

[Shouldn't Have]

Re: Water in Bellows

More pics...

Wow, look at all this space. Too bad the engines need to go back in!
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29631&stc=1&d=1244041341

Another shot of the engine compartment.
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29632&stc=1&d=1244041341


So as of now the engines are back on the stringers. I had to order 12 new bolts for the transom plate. I don't want to put back in those awful old ones. A part guy told me to put stainless back in, so I'm going to do that.

Once I get those, I'll attached them, check engine alignment, attach all wires and hoses and fire them up without the upper gear box on just to make sure there is no more rattling.

Will keep you posted...

Thanks to everyone for their advise and pointers, especially captmello and Don S via other posts!

Scott