Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

[boatforever]

Quick Question: How much performance have people gained or not gained when they replace points with electronic ignition conversion?

I have a small 4 cylinder 3.7L 170hp and I am about to perform a tune up and I was thinking of changing out the points, it only will cost $100 bucks.

 

[Rocky_Road]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

I have seen a lot of posts about this conversion...but I have never seen anyone claim to experience any performance gain.

However...done right, there can be little doubt as to the reliability, and freedom from regular maintanence, that this will provide.

If my current engine had points, I would have beat you to it!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

I would leave the points. Points are easy to change and set up and are the most reliable.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Points are easy to change and set up and are the most reliable.

How many of your airplanes have you pulled the magnetos out of and changed over to points????

How many of your cars have you pulled the electronic ignition out of and changed over to points???

Just interested in seeing how serious you were .....

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Never have...but I wouldn't put an unreliable pertronix ignition system in my boat.

The advantage of most electronic ignitions in boats is that they have an electronic advance curve and often a knock sensor built into the system. If you change out your points to a pertronix type system, you are basically just replacing the points with an electronic switch. Everything else remains the same including the mechanical advance. No performance gain will happen.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Never have...but I wouldn't put an unreliable pertronix ignition system in my boat.

The advantage of most electronic ignitions in boats is that they have an electronic advance curve and usually a knock sensor built into the system. If you change out your points to a pertronix type system, you are basically just replacing the points with an electronic switch. Everything else remains the same including the mechanical advance. No performance gain will happen.

Agree 100%...

If its not broke don't fix it....

 

[meesh]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Why spend the money, points are easy to work on and rarely fail. With no performance gain, it's money better spent elsewhere.

 

[remauto1187]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Wholeheartedly fully disagree.....yank the points and go with solid state!

And I'm still laughing about the electronic switch comment....ALL ELECTRONIC IGNITIONS ARE ELECTRONIC SWITCHES.....Which take the place of a mechanical switch (Breaker point).

Breaker points are wearing out from the time you run them new. Their gap is increasing by the minute. So in reality the trigger point time is increasing as well.

You may not notice performance gain ...but its there. You wont gain ungodly amounts of horsepower. Probably not enough to talk about. But you will gain reliability. How many times have you heard of a person talk about breaker points leaving them stranded? You will experience a breaker point at fault break down atleast twice in your boating experiences. If you run solid state ignition 100% of the time on your boats you might see one failure in your lifetime. I'll take the one failure over 2 or more anytime!

When are the "oldtimers" gonna get over the breaker points? This IS 2009 time to move on with technology!

Oh and I have had a pertronix on my mercuiser 350 for almost 6 years now. No problems whatsoever.

And I've had a solid state ignition module fail in my cars/trucks once in my life so far and I'm 37. My truck currently has 207K miles and its on its OEM module. hmmmmm

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

How many of your airplanes have you pulled the magnetos out of and changed over to points????

How many of your cars have you pulled the electronic ignition out of and changed over to points???

Just interested in seeing how serious you were .....

I could be wrong, but don't the vast majority of aircraft magnetos have points in them?

James

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Wholeheartedly fully disagree.....yank the points and go with solid state!

And I'm still laughing about the electronic switch comment....ALL ELECTRONIC IGNITIONS ARE ELECTRONIC SWITCHES.....Which take the place of a mechanical switch (Breaker point).

Breaker points are wearing out from the time you run them new. Their gap is increasing by the minute. So in reality the trigger point time is increasing as well.

You may not notice performance gain ...but its there. You wont gain ungodly amounts of horsepower. Probably not enough to talk about. But you will gain reliability. How many times have you heard of a person talk about breaker points leaving them stranded? You will experience a breaker point at fault break down atleast twice in your boating experiences. If you run solid state ignition 100% of the time on your boats you might see one failure in your lifetime. I'll take the one failure over 2 or more anytime!

When are the "oldtimers" gonna get over the breaker points? This IS 2009 time to move on with technology!

Oh and I have had a pertronix on my mercuiser 350 for almost 6 years now. No problems whatsoever.

And I've had a solid state ignition module fail in my cars/trucks once in my life so far and I'm 37. My truck currently has 207K miles and its on its OEM module. hmmmmm

Where did you get these statistics? Last I heard 92.637893125478% of quoted statistics were made up on the spot.

James

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

And I'm still laughing about the electronic switch comment....ALL ELECTRONIC IGNITIONS ARE ELECTRONIC SWITCHES.....Which take the place of a mechanical switch (Breaker point).

You missed my point.

Yes you are replacing a mechanical switch with an electronic switch. Switching to a Pertronix system gets you just that and no other benefits of a newer electronic ignition system so I don't really see the point in changing. Points are very reliable and when you break down 40 miles off shore, you can throw in another set of points if necessary. Kinda hard to do that with a Pertronix system.

The OEM system that is in your truck is way more robust than what the Pertronix is.

I am an electrical engineer that designs solid state devices and believe me, there is a certain failure rate.

So...

For the original poster

1) No performance gain since you are only replacing a mechanical switch with an electronic one.

2) No reliability gain

3) No performance gain since this electronic ignition is not going to change your advance curves for you.

 

[remauto1187]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

And I am a Electronic Technician for the Federal Aviation Adminstration specializing in Radar and I redesign when the engineers fall short of their repsonsibilities.

Points are not reliable. Condensor fails the points burn. Points will wear out...its their design flaw.

How often do you think a pertronix is gonna fail? There isnt much difference between a pertronix ignition and a 80's gm solid state module. Your vacuum advance takes care of ingition advance ...NOT THE SOLID STATE IGNITION.

And the "statistics" come from experience. Ask around to fellow boaters as to how many times points have left them stranded. I won't even bring up you asking the automotive community that drove breaker point equipped vehicles during their teens as to how many times breaker points stranded them.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

How often do you think a pertronix is gonna fail? There isnt much difference between a pertronix ignition and a 80's gm solid state module. Your vacuum advance takes care of ingition advance ...NOT THE SOLID STATE IGNITION.

There are no vacuum advance marine distributors.

 

[JJJ]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

You could also KEEP the points (disconnect the condensor) and use a simple MSD or Chrysler electronic ignition box using the points as the trigger.

Simple, reliable, and you have points as a backup system ready to go

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Your vast marine knowledge is evident with the vacume advance statement. But since you are in the aviation field maybe you can answer if aviation magnetos have points in them?

James

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Since I've only been a marine tech for the last 17 years I'm sure you know many more boaters than I. You might want to survey a larger portion of the boating public prior to quoting statistics.

James

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

I guess it all comes down to personal preference. I like new tech fuel injection/electronic ignition stuff. I also see the value in old style carb and breaker points. As a mechanic I can most likely limp in if carb and points let me down. If fuel inj/elec ignition let me down I'm most likely stuck where I am.
Most people (non mechanics) are stuck either way so the ease of starting and performance wins on modern systems. Converting points has a limited advantage here. You don't have to change points, but also don't gain performance over a well maintained points system. For the same money I'll take the multi port injection over carb/points any day.

James

 

[remauto1187]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Your vast marine knowledge is evident with the vacume advance statement. But since you are in the aviation field maybe you can answer if aviation magnetos have points in them?

James

Im a FAA technician...I work on FAA equipment NOT airplanes.... I can tell you that a F/A-18C Hornet doesn't have points....instead it has a SOLID STATE IGNITION that is hardwired to come on when the pilot initiates a launch sequence for the pretty rockets underneath its wings.

And I'm not even gonna waste the time on the how many boaters you know vs. I know comment...since you just know so much about me and who I know.

<Yawning>

 

[slasmith1]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

Where did you get these statistics? Last I heard 92.637893125478% of quoted statistics were made up on the spot.

James

no it was Mark Twain who said "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics"

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Electronic Ignition versus Points? Gain or No Gain

It's interesting that no body has mentioned one of the key features of modern electronic ignition, variable and precisely controlled dwell.

A bag of the old points/condenser/plate is a good thing to have in the tool box , but technology has far and away surpassed the era of points.