First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

[mariettaken]

So I completely forgot about winterizing my 5.7l Mercruiser 2 winters ago. I live in GA. The last time I had the boat in the (fresh) water was around July 2007. After that it was on a trailer under covered storage. We did not take it out at all last season.
So, here I am ready to use it this season -- and fire it up for the first time. My HOPE is that it sat long enough before winter arrived that the water in the open pathways of the engine, risers and manifolds had a chance to evaporate. ANY chance of that?

All I have done so far is pull the dipstick. No signs of milkiness. Oh, I also unscrewed the drain plugs on the manifolds. Only a little water came out of each -- maybe 1/4 cup or less.

My question is how should I proceed? Should I just try to start it and let it warm up, listening and watching carefully? Or, should I check compression, change oil, what??

 

[danond]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Compression test will give you some info. Regardless, you need to fire it up to see if you broke it.

 

[wil7483]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

My HOPE is that it sat long enough before winter arrived that the water in the open pathways of the engine, risers and manifolds had a chance to evaporate. ANY chance of that?

Water can not evaporate out of a closed jar so it probably will not evaporate out of your engine. The best thing for you to do is just start the engine and see what happens. After you have ascertained whether or not any damage has been done then you can start your maintenance routine. Change the oil, grease outdrive, etc, etc, etc.

 

[bamadave]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Compression test will not tell you if there is a crack in the block.
One of the pro's will chime in soon and give you suggestions.
Good luck!

 

[danond]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Which, is why I said it'll give you "some" info.

The real test is to start it. There's no downside. Either it's broken (and your block is junk) or it's not (and you go count your blessings).

 

[Don S]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

A compression test not only will not tell you if the block is cracked from freezing, but will tell you absolutely nothing on an engines condition that has set for 2 years without being winerized. Until it has been run to knock the surface rust off the valve seats. exercise the rings, etc. it's just a waste of time.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Water can not evaporate out of a closed jar so it probably will not evaporate out of your engine.

I wondered if it was a truly closed system since the water is sucked in from outside the boat and spit back out. I didn't/don't fully understand whether the impellar, water pump and other components actually seal off the chambers and prevent evaporatio. Sounds like they do, and the odds are I'm screwed.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

A compression test not only will not tell you if the block is cracked from freezing, but will tell you absolutely nothing on an engines condition that has set for 2 years without being winerized. Until it has been run to knock the surface rust off the valve seats. exercise the rings, etc. it's just a waste of time.

How will a cracked block reveal itself to me? Water pouring out of the bottom somewhere. Motor stall? Oil in bottom of boat?

I just don't want to run it any longer than I have too and risk doing anymore damage that might have been avoided.

 

[wil7483]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

How will a cracked block reveal itself to me? Water pouring out of the bottom somewhere. Motor stall? Oil in bottom of boat?

Water in the oil is the 1st clue to look for. Connect your water supply, check oil level on dipstick, start engine, let run for 15 - 20 minutes, shut down engine, check dipstick again. If oil is now milky, the level on the dipstick has increased, or water droplets are on the dipstick then you have major issues. Secondly if the crack is on the outside then you will see the water coming out of the crack on the side of the block. If the block is cracked and water is making its way to the oil then you can't do anymore damage than you already have so your point is sort of moot. Check your freeze plugs and see if any of them have been pushed out or missing. You might have gotten lucky depending on the amount of water that was in the block when you sat the boat up last time it was used.

 

[Don S]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

When you start it, most likely a core plug or 2 have been popped out of place. Water will pour out of them, but may not go into the block. The first thing you have to do is plug the core plugs. There are rubber expansion plugs you can get that will work for testing, but don't try to use them as a permanent fix so you can pressure check the cooling passages of the block. You will need to isolate the manifolds and risers from the block. If the block holds pressure, you dodged the big one.
They usually crack in the lifter area under the intake manifold.

Don't think because you didn't get water in the oil while the engne was running on muffs with bad core plugs that you were lucky. The core plug holes are bigger than the cracks in the block and may not show.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Water in the oil is the 1st clue to look for. Connect your water supply, check oil level on dipstick, start engine, let run for 15 - 20 minutes, shut down engine, check dipstick again. If oil is now milky, the level on the dipstick has increased, or water droplets are on the dipstick then you have major issues. Secondly if the crack is on the outside then you will see the water coming out of the crack on the side of the block. If the block is cracked and water is making its way to the oil then you can't do anymore damage than you already have so your point is sort of moot. Check your freeze plugs and see if any of them have been pushed out or missing. You might have gotten lucky depending on the amount of water that was in the block when you sat the boat up last time it was used.

Thanks. I'll hook up the water tomorrow, fire her up and and hope for the best.

I'll search this...but could you tell me where my freeze plugs are, and what they look like??

 

[Don S]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

I'll search this...but could you tell me where my freeze plugs are, and what they look like??

Find a qualified marine mechanic.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Find a qualified marine mechanic.

Well, I certainly will if it comes to that. I'd like to think I could handle the freeze/core plugs if they've popped out. I've just learned of them here for the the first time.

I enjoy the hobby of working on my own boat, and being able to fix things, just like I do on some of my cars. When I first bought the boat I replaced the risers and manifolds. Have replaced the water pump, starter, impellar, and been competely through the wiring and controls. Mechanical things don't really intimidate me -- especially with the extra help and expertise you can get on forums like this.

I'm a little surprised that I got sent to a mechanic for asking about my freeze plugs.

 

[bamadave]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

When you didn't know what or where freeze plugs were, Don, who is one of the best master mechanics around, recognised your ability to make the repairs correctly and was telling you in a polite way to have it done.
He made his post before your last one and I'm sure he would have more to say as to your comments on working on your machinery. Boats are like no other vehicles, they require more due diligence in keeping them water worthy and safe. You mention all the repairs you have made, but then negligently did not winterize properly or at all. You'll be lucky if you don't need the engine replaced.
Check oil level, put the engine on muffs and start it up. If you don't see water pouring out somewhere on the engine, start looking for trickles of water. If you still don't see water, check oil level again to see you have more than before. If all good still, take it to the lake. But beware, I have read here dozens of times of boats in the same shape yours is in and no leaks on the muffs and 2 minutes on the lake and the engine starts spitting all kinds of nasty crap out all over the engine compartment. I truly hope this won't be you, but when you don't take care of your toys, this can and will happen. And no, when you don't drain the block and manifolds, the trapped water will not evaporate before it freezes in Georgia. Maybe where it never freezes, but then I bet it would rust to the point of leaking before the water evaporates.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Thanks bamadave. Having done quite a bit of work on my boat, I do appreciate the complexities of the marine engine -- not the least of which is getting to everything in that insanely cramped space! I've gladly paid others to work on my outdrive and seal as that seemed tricky to get right. I'm also willing to hire appropriate talent for this if i comes to that -- and it well may. As far as neglect on winterizing -- that was just just that -- neglect. I've winterized plenty in the past and don't feel the need to pay a mechanic to do it. I just needed to do it. Out of sight, out of mind in this case. Oh well, perhaps an expensive lesson learned.

I fired the boat up today. First turn was a monster backfire and a tinny ping, which I assumed was a core plug. Thought about stopping there, but turned her over again. Fired right up and ran smoothly. Water pouring out of both sides of the engine...dang. However, flow appeared uniform so I assumed core plugs. Sure enough, found one popped out right behind the motor mount. So far haven't located the other to confirm a plug and not a crack. No water in oil, but only ran for a couple of minutes. Following Don's comments I understand that I won't truly know what I've got until the holes are replugged.

I've reached out to a marine mechanic in the area. I plan to have him give the whole thing a good looking over, plug holes, etc -- then determine where to go from there.

Thanks!

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

If all good still, take it to the lake. But beware, I have read here dozens of times of boats in the same shape yours is in and no leaks on the muffs and 2 minutes on the lake and the engine starts spitting all kinds of nasty crap out all over the engine compartment.

That is exactly what happened about 3 weeks ago to my sister's boat.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Rather than spend time here fretting about it, fire it up. You may want to drain the two year old fuel and replace with fresh. If it doesn't turn over it could be seized and/or hydro-locked (water in cylinders). If its broke it needs to be fixed. If it's not -- do the annual service and go boating. Hand wringing doesn't solve problems. Run it on muffs for a bit and then leave it sit for an hour or so. Pull the plugs (chances are they need to be changed anyway) and then spin the engine over. If it spits water out one or more plug holes you have determined that there is an issue. Check the oil. If still not milky you are good to go. Install new plugs, change the oil, service the drive and go.

 

[wil7483]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Rather than spend time here fretting about it, fire it up. You may want to drain the two year old fuel and replace with fresh. If it doesn't turn over it could be seized and/or hydro-locked (water in cylinders). If its broke it needs to be fixed. If it's not -- do the annual service and go boating. Hand wringing doesn't solve problems. Run it on muffs for a bit and then leave it sit for an hour or so. Pull the plugs (chances are they need to be changed anyway) and then spin the engine over. If it spits water out one or more plug holes you have determined that there is an issue. Check the oil. If still not milky you are good to go. Install new plugs, change the oil, service the drive and go.

Did you not read the part of the thread where he stated he started the engine and it spit water at him from the missing core plugs?

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

If it popped two (or more, you don't know yet) of the plugs out I would put the odds at 99.9% the block is cracked. Being realistic, you are looking at a new engine and you will want to cut your loses working on the existing one.

So popping plugs doesn't relieve the pressure that would otherwise crack the block?

Yeah, I'm pretty much coming to the realization that stupid neglect is going to cost me plenty. I saw a rebuilt long-block from local marine mechanic for $1400. Is that reasonable?

Also, I can tell that I don't want any part of pulling that motor and reworking all. So, how much should I (roughly) expect to pay someone to do that for me assuming the rest of my parts are sound? Is that $1000 in labor? $2K? $5K? Just looking for an idea to help with planning. I know there are infinite variables, so I'm just looking for approx cost to pull motor, move stuff to new long-block, reinstall motor and tune.

 

[bamadave]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Before pricing labor, check prices on new long block, exhaust manifolds,risers, coupler, gimbal bearing, u-joints, bellows, etc. If you going to do an engine swap, I'd do a complete overhaul of all the drive train. After getting that information, make the determination if the boat is worth that cost. Labor from a reputable shop could be at least $2000.
I know this is throwing salt on the wound, but I can pull my plugs to drain the block and manifolds in 10 minutes. This can be the most expensive 10 minute mistake you can make with a boat. There are alot of other mistakes one can make, like not replacing .50 cent seals when putting in fresh drive lube, not pulling the drive to lube u-joints, etc.
You are not the first to properly winterize, nor will you be the last. But I guarantee that if you stay in boating, you will never make this mistake again.