Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
I'm trying to help a friend with his computer. At this point it seems to be a case of the blind leading the blind. He said he had some kind of virus so I agreed to look at it for him. Right out the gate, I am stumped. Not so sure it is a virus issue at all.

When you turn on the computer it goes straight to the Advanced Start up Options. If you select either normal or safe, it starts the scrolling Win XP startup marque then promply goes to the blue screen with white text.

It states that 'a problem has been detected and windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer'. It advises to check for adequate disk space, states if any drivers are identified in the stop message (none identified) to try driver updates. It also says to try changing the video adaptors. It advises to check for bios updates or to start in safe mode and to disable BIOS memory options like cashing or shadowing. It also says to enter safemode (which it won't) to disable any necessary components.

The last line is Technical information:
****Stop: 0x0000007E (0xc0000005, 0x8068EE99, 0xF895B4CC, 0xF895B1C8)

This is a Dell P4 2.8, w/ 512 mb ram and a SATA Samsung hard drive.

If for any reason the OS needs to be reloaded, they do not even supply CD's anymore. There is a sticker on the side of the case for the XP Home Edition with key numbers.?
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

For starters, write down the service tag number. It will be on a sticker somewhere on the case. Then go to the online chat thing with Dell support here:

http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/chat/hardware_chat?c=us&l=en&s=gen

If it turns out to be a Windows problem and not hardware they won't offer much help BUT... That's when you find out (from Dell) if there's a hidden system restore partition. If not they will send you operating system and driver discs for a small fee. At least you'll know your options straight from the horses fingers.
 

ToothDocNick

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
79
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

Just from a brief google search you may just be SOL without the restore disks or access to the restore feature. Have you tried to boot into safe mode by pressing f8 while turning the computer on? If you can get into safe mode you will have several options then. If it is a hardware problem it will more than likely happen again. If you are able to get into safe mode then try to back up as much info as possible before you mess around with the PC, just in case you need to do a complete reinstall of XP. After backing things up you can find a good antivirus and spyware software and run it to see if it is infected or not. Avast has a free version that is pretty good and so does AVG, both are superior to Norton in every way. If it is not a virus or spyware you can try to restore to an earlier point or do a reinstall of XP, most pc's that did not include the disks have a partition on the hard drive where the OS is located. It should have everything you need from there. Good luck.
 

v1_0

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
575
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

If for any reason the OS needs to be reloaded, they do not even supply CD's anymore. There is a sticker on the side of the case for the XP Home Edition with key numbers.?

You can still get the DVDs, I think. Just need to search the web.

Do you have access to a burner? You could make a bootable CD.

More later - I used to have a toolkit CD for this sort of thing with disk formatting, memory analysis, etc. tools on it. I'll see if I can't track that down.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

I think I saw the partition option in the Advanced start up options. I'll check that out.

In the mean time, how do I get files off of the hard drive if I have to reload the operating system. I would probably be using a USB flash drive.

Interesting note. My friend initially took his computer to Geek Squad. They wanted $400 to fix it. Buuuuuuuut, they left a diagnostic CD in the CD Drive and I'm using that now to test all the hardware. So far, everything is passing. There is a whole lot of other stuff on the CD that I do not have a clue what to do with.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

You can still get the DVDs, I think. Just need to search the web. Do you mean the XP Home Edition CD? Do you think Dell put recovery stuff on a seperate partition? Do you have access to a burner? YES You could make a bootable CD. How would that work?

More later - I used to have a toolkit CD for this sort of thing with disk formatting, memory analysis, etc. tools on it. I'll see if I can't track that down. Thanks

v1, be sure to read my post above. I was typing it while you were responding.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
12
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

Take a look at this information.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330182

I'd start by deleting uneeded files via cmd prompt as you'll get that message if the hd is full. If you find the xp disk, boot from that to repair or reinstall.

Can you boot via dos? If so try this to determine your available space:

dir <press enter>

At the end of the directory listing you will see information similar to the below example.

2 file (s) 578 bytes
15 dir (s) 16,754.78 MB free
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

Take a look at this information.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330182

I'd start by deleting uneeded files via cmd prompt as you'll get that message if the hd is full. If you find the xp disk, boot from that to repair or reinstall.

Can you boot via dos? If so try this to determine your available space:

dir <press enter>

At the end of the directory listing you will see information similar to the below example.

2 file (s) 578 bytes
15 dir (s) 16,754.78 MB free


I did not see an option to boot from the command prompt. I will look again. That usually shows up in the Advanced start up Mode? but I do not remember seeing it.

EDIT: I found it. It is called boot from Command Prompt in SafeMode, but it gave me the same blue message as posted above.

I did find a trouble shooting diagnostic program in the partition. It gives a bunch of possible problems and runs tests for them. Right now I a running one for Windows Blue Screen. When it finishes I will run one for "cannot boot the OS"
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
12
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

Look for "Safe Mode with Command Prompt"

Vista-Advanced-Boot-Options.jpg


I know you said regular safemode wouldn't boot but try command prompt. Did he recently add new hardware/software? I mean right before this issue? If so, I'd try removing the new hardware as well.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

Look for "Safe Mode with Command Prompt"

Vista-Advanced-Boot-Options.jpg


I know you said regular safemode wouldn't boot but try command prompt. Did he recently add new hardware/software? I mean right before this issue? If so, I'd try removing the new hardware as well.

See my above post, MFP. That option did not work either.

As for added hardware or software, I do not think so. This is my friends wife's computer and I don't think they would know how, but I'll ask.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

A reocurring theme, mentioned here and elsewhere is the possibilty that the hard drive is full. I do not know how big it is to begin with and without being able to get to windows or the command prompt, I do not know how to find if the HD is full?
 

v1_0

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
575
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

Ok. Time for a more lengthy reply.

The first thing to do is to get the computer to boot up - but, this doesn't have to be from the hard drive.

There are some programs out there - nero cd/rom burner, for example - that will allow you to create a bootable CD/ROM. (more information at: http://www.nu2.nu/bootcd/)

This site seems to walk you though it, I haven't done it in a while: http://www.howtohaven.com/system/createwindowssetupdisk.shtml
http://www.howtohaven.com/system/live-windows-rescue-cd.shtm

I'm assuming that you can create the windows rescue/bootable CD ROM from your working computer.

The game plan here is to create the bootable CD Rom, then to go to the ailing computer and get it to boot of the CD/ROM. This may require you to go into the bios during startup and select a "boot from cd/rom" option. Before we go there tho - just put the cd/rom in the drive and start the computer - see if boots off the CD drive. If not, then during startup - before any windows stuff shows up - there is usually an option to enter "setup" (bios). It may vary with the computer - F1, F3, F10, etc - often you need to press a F key during startup. This will take you into the bios setup screen, where you can specify the boot order (which device to boot off first, or at all). In there you will need to tell it to boot off the CD/ROM.

The bios can tell you some more information as well - such as if the computer recognizes that it actually has a hard drive (sounds like it does, as you do get to start to get into windows), and that it knows what type of drive it is. While you are there, make sure things look OK (autodetect is always a good default option, but write down the original settings of anything you change).

Anyway, once you get the computer to boot into an operating system you can start accessing the hard drive to see what's going on.

Ultimately you want to at least have some functionallity for the computer - ability to get files off the harddrive to something (onboard CD/ROM, or usb drive, or something). To do that, we may need to create another bootable CD/ROM with the correct drivers for the particular devices you want to use, and the programs to use them. (Such as a CD burning program).

However, one step at a time - try to get to the hard drive to see if you can see things on it.

Meanwhile, you need to gather a bit more information. It is very rare that things happen out of the blue, even with windows. Were there any other symptoms prior to the BSOD - like maybe it ran slow, took a long time to boot, made funny sounds, changed colors, ANYTHING that was different? Did something get dropped, spilled, etc. New hardware or software recently installed?

Any of these can give clues to narrow down the search/resolution path.
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

I think I saw the partition option in the Advanced start up options. I'll check that out.

In the mean time, how do I get files off of the hard drive if I have to reload the operating system. I would probably be using a USB flash drive.

Interesting note. My friend initially took his computer to Geek Squad. They wanted $400 to fix it. Buuuuuuuut, they left a diagnostic CD in the CD Drive and I'm using that now to test all the hardware. So far, everything is passing. There is a whole lot of other stuff on the CD that I do not have a clue what to do with.

If you do the chat thing with Dell like I suggested, they would walk you through using the diagnostic that came with the system. It's on a separate partition and almost always works even when windows is broke.

If that test indicated a hardware problem and if the system is still under warranty they will send the part to fix it. If not at least you'll know what to replace. More than likely the operating system is broke.

Yes there's also sorts of utilities you download and throw at it. Yes there are numerous troubleshooting steps you could do to repair it. Most of these require a higher than average skill level to perform. So while this is not the only way to address the problem, it's my suggestion for you...

Do the chat thing. Why? Because it's faster and a lot less hassle than calling them. They'll be able to ether show you how to access the restore partition if there is one. Otherwise they can help you get a new OS and Driver CD. Because of the Windows sticker on the PC, that system is already licensed to run Windows. That license was paid for with the computer. The restore CD won't cost over $100 like a Windows CD would at retail. The operating system and driver CD will likey cost less than $20 bux if they charge you at all.

I did this same procedure myself on Monday to get new keyboards for 2 doctors laptops. (I'm the IT manager for an Orthopedic clinic) They had accidentally knocked some of the keys off the keyboard. Anyway, the replacements came in today (Tuesday). I didn't have to wait on the phone or deal with anyone's foreign accent. Took care of the whole thing in the support chat in about 15 mins. It's one of the reasons I like working on Dell computers. Not that I think their hardware is the greatest, but the simplicity of getting parts for them is about the best there is.

Once you load the OS, it'll be missing a lot of drivers. That's where the Dell driver CD comes in handy. Sure, you can go to Dell's web site and download the drivers, but the CD will make this process trivial.

Now if you choose to just get an XP cd from somewhere, the serial number on the sticker may or may not work. You'll still need to get the drivers somehow and get them on that system. If your time is worth anything at all, getting the discs from Dell is worth it.

Of course, before you do that you'll need to backup the data if there's anything important on there. You will need to ask the owner what sort of data is on there and where he saves it.

Typically, people are going to have documents, photos, music, email, and their Internet Bookmarks/Favorites. By default, these items are going to be located in:

c:\Documents and Settings\<Username>\

Many default XP installations have the user as Owner but don't assume.

I will normally grab every subfolder and back that up. It's very important to ask the user what software they use and what data they have because sometimes data is saved in other locations.

How do you get the data off?

Lots of ways to skin that cat. But I'll give you a few...

1. Take the hard drive out and connect it to your computer as a second drive. You don't want to boot from it. This may require prequsite skills you don't posess.

2. Get a USB drive and some live linux CD like Ubuntu or knoppix. Again this is going to have its own set of obstacles you must learn in order to be successful.

I used to do method #1 years ago until method #2 became available. I don't even do that anymore now. I use secret option #3...

#3. Get a USB hard drive adaptor. I have this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156102

Plug any hard drive into that (IDE/SATA PC/laptop) and plug the usb cable into a working puter. It's as easy to use as a thumb drive.

Shoot, if you have the space, back just copy the whole drive onto a folder on your computer.


Another thing the owner must understand. Data is the stuff you make with your softare, not the software. In other words, software must be reinstalled. Retreiving it from a backup is not going to work.


And lastly, I have to keep preaching this because it works so well....
After the system is working.
Go out and buy a nice sized external hard drive and a copy of Acronis True Image. Make regular backups with Acronis of your hard drive. Keep those backups on the external. If the computer ever gets hosed again it'll be an extremely painless process to get it restored to a working state.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

v1 0, tomorrow I will ask about any events that occured on or about the time of the failure.

As for the bootable disk. I read the links that you posted and come away confused (what else is new?) Seems that they talk about doing it from the computer that has the problem (XP Home Edition). They talk about service packs and the like and I do not have a clue what packs this computer might have. They also talk about getting the i386 file???

The upshot is that I can burn a bootable disc from my main computer (XPpro) but I don't know about incorporating any of the other stuff they talk about.

I am reconciled to reloading the operating system. I thought Dell might have put the resources to do that in the "utility partition" but it does not appear to be there. The case has a sticker on it with the key numbers but the system came with the OS pre-installed and no discs.

The only thing I need to get off this computer before I reload, are pictures.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

If you do the chat thing with Dell like I suggested, they would walk you through using the diagnostic that came with the system. It's on a separate partition and almost always works even when windows is broke. I think 'chat' support is for a fee if the computer is out of warranty, which it is. I posted a question about obtaining the OS, in the user forum.

If that test indicated a hardware problem and if the system is still under warranty they will send the part to fix it. If not at least you'll know what to replace. More than likely the operating system is broke. I'm sure that is what it is as there is a diagnostic program in the 'utility partition that shows all hardware to be working.

Yes there's also sorts of utilities you download and throw at it. Yes there are numerous troubleshooting steps you could do to repair it. Most of these require a higher than average skill level to perform. So while this is not the only way to address the problem, it's my suggestion for you...

Do the chat thing. Why? Because it's faster and a lot less hassle than calling them. They'll be able to ether show you how to access the restore partition if there is one. One does not show up Otherwise they can help you get a new OS and Driver CD. Because of the Windows sticker on the PC, that system is already licensed to run Windows. That license was paid for with the computer. The restore CD won't cost over $100 like a Windows CD would at retail. The operating system and driver CD will likey cost less than $20 bux if they charge you at all.

I did this same procedure myself on Monday to get new keyboards for 2 doctors laptops. (I'm the IT manager for an Orthopedic clinic) They had accidentally knocked some of the keys off the keyboard. Anyway, the replacements came in today (Tuesday). I didn't have to wait on the phone or deal with anyone's foreign accent. Took care of the whole thing in the support chat in about 15 mins. It's one of the reasons I like working on Dell computers. Not that I think their hardware is the greatest, but the simplicity of getting parts for them is about the best there is.

Once you load the OS, it'll be missing a lot of drivers. That's where the Dell driver CD comes in handy. Sure, you can go to Dell's web site and download the drivers, but the CD will make this process trivial.

Now if you choose to just get an XP cd from somewhere, the serial number on the sticker may or may not work. You'll still need to get the drivers somehow and get them on that system. If your time is worth anything at all, getting the discs from Dell is worth it.

Of course, before you do that you'll need to backup the data if there's anything important on there. You will need to ask the owner what sort of data is on there and where he saves it.

Typically, people are going to have documents, photos, music, email, and their Internet Bookmarks/Favorites. By default, these items are going to be located in:

c:\Documents and Settings\<Username>\

Many default XP installations have the user as Owner but don't assume.

I will normally grab every subfolder and back that up. It's very important to ask the user what software they use and what data they have because sometimes data is saved in other locations.

How do you get the data off?

Lots of ways to skin that cat. But I'll give you a few...

1. Take the hard drive out and connect it to your computer as a second drive. You don't want to boot from it. This may require prequsite skills you don't posess. That's what I would like to have done. Problem is my Asus P4s8X motherboard is not SATA capable and the Dell/Samsung drive is a SATA drive.

2. Get a USB drive and some live linux CD like Ubuntu or knoppix. Again this is going to have its own set of obstacles you must learn in order to be successful.

I used to do method #1 years ago until method #2 became available. I don't even do that anymore now. I use secret option #3...

#3. Get a USB hard drive adaptor. I have this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156102

Plug any hard drive into that (IDE/SATA PC/laptop) and plug the usb cable into a working puter. It's as easy to use as a thumb drive. I may have to get one of those. It sounds pretty convenient. Even without a compatability problem it would sure beat tearing your computer apart to slave a hard drive for extraction.

Shoot, if you have the space, back just copy the whole drive onto a folder on your computer. Could do that, either on my external USB HD or on my onboard HD.

Another thing the owner must understand. Data is the stuff you make with your softare, not the software. In other words, software must be reinstalled. Retreiving it from a backup is not going to work. 10-4 on all that.


And lastly, I have to keep preaching this because it works so well....
After the system is working.
Go out and buy a nice sized external hard drive and a copy of Acronis True Image. Make regular backups with Acronis of your hard drive. Keep those backups on the external. If the computer ever gets hosed again it'll be an extremely painless process to get it restored to a working state.

You brought up the Acronis a while back. I kind of looked into it but don't remember why I did not jump on it. That, of course, would not have done any good for this current project.
 

v1_0

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
575
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

The upshot is that I can burn a bootable disc from my main computer (XPpro) but I don't know about incorporating any of the other stuff they talk about.

That would be fine. What we want to do is get the ailing computer to boot off something, to take a look and see at the hard drive. [Note that this just gets you a look at the hard drive, to help diagnose what to do next. To do anything more - such as getting files off the drive - there's more work involved.]

I do like i386's suggestion of using the dell restore partion, that would be tremendously easier in the long run.
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

If I'm not mistaken, most Dells don't have a recovery partition. I can only recall one that did have it when I worked on it in the past. However, I've never seen one that didn't have a "utility partition". When you boot that partition it fires up "Dell Diagnostics".


Even if the system is out of warranty, the chat guy should help you in the direction of getting replacement OS and driver cd's. I have done this on both Dell and HP computers. * I think HP was done over the phone.

If you get nowhere with that, shoot me the service tag number and I'll see what I can do.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

It downloaded successfully. No bugs either. I take it that I need to unzip it before I can do anything? Do you use the 'trial' of Winzip, or did you buy it?

btw i, your pm box is full up.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Oh, where to start-Need Computer help.

That would be fine. What we want to do is get the ailing computer to boot off something, to take a look and see at the hard drive. [Note that this just gets you a look at the hard drive, to help diagnose what to do next. To do anything more - such as getting files off the drive - there's more work involved.]

I do like i386's suggestion of using the dell restore partion, that would be tremendously easier in the long run.

v1_0, I found the 'partition'. It is a CTRL+F11 function and it does work. I just haven't run it yet till I can get a look at the HD contents to get the fotos off of it.
 
Top