64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

sbump52

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Got a 9422R that will start, but won't idle without the choke being pulled out. I was going to rebuild the carb (still going to) and rebuild the fuel pump. The parts house tells me there is no fuel pump kit available, but the fuel pump is for 96.00. What is in a fuel pump kit? If I take it apart and clean it and mess up a gasket am I sunk? Can I make a gasket out of some gasket material that will work if I have too? I have had it off but decided not to mess with it until I could find out what to do in case I mess up a gasket. Is there a diaphram behind the engine inlet that works off the exhaust pressure? What is on the other side?
 

ezeke

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

You can move to the later models' small square fuel pump or use a larger Sierra aftermarket pump #18-7351. I've used both with no noticeable difference.
 

sbump52

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

Cool, about how much are we talking for that Sierra pump? Oh wait, I can look it up here on iboats right?
 

sbump52

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

Ordered the fuel pump. It was on sale, 50.00 total. Thanks.
 

Rick.

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

Back to your original post, I would suggest your problem is in the carb. not the fuel pump. Get a rebuild kit for your carb. and give it a very good cleaning and I would bet your problem will go away. You never mentioned how it ran beyond idle but keeping your choke pulled gives it more gas/less air which could be a symptom of a dirty carb. far more so than a bad pump. If the pump is original then your doing right as it has served the motor well but my money would be on the carb. Best of luck. Rick.
 

F_R

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

Back to your original post, I would suggest your problem is in the carb. not the fuel pump. Get a rebuild kit for your carb. and give it a very good cleaning and I would bet your problem will go away. You never mentioned how it ran beyond idle but keeping your choke pulled gives it more gas/less air which could be a symptom of a dirty carb. far more so than a bad pump. If the pump is original then your doing right as it has served the motor well but my money would be on the carb. Best of luck. Rick.

Agreed. The fact that it continues to run with the choke pulled out proves that there is gas there (the fuel pump put it there). It also points to the high speed jet in the carburetor, which obviously is partially plugged up.
 

sbump52

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

It would run smooth for about a minute, then want to cough and die with the choke out or in, didn't matter. The glass bowl would be empty and would have to repump bulb.
 

F_R

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

It would run smooth for about a minute, then want to cough and die with the choke out or in, didn't matter. The glass bowl would be empty and would have to repump bulb.

OK, with that new information, it does indeed point to the fuel pump. OR, an air leak somewhere between the tank and pump.

You have to watch it with some of the "will work" pumps. Often they will not work because the hose fittings point in the wrong direction. You might notice that even the original one needed a special molded hose.
 

sbump52

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

Fuel pump arrived. It is ok to turn it over 180 degrees to mount it? It fits better that way for the fuel line connections. Not front to back of course, but up and down.
 

ezeke

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

You can turn the incoming line on the larger pumps in any direction; just loosen the nut and swivel it around.

The outgoing line should be downward. I think the pump will work either way, though.

Be sure that the gasket between the pump and the motor is airtight.
 

sbump52

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

Thanks I will try it this way. There was no sealant between the engine and gasket on the old one so I didn't put any. Tightened it down tight. When I get the carb kit will see how it goes.
 

sbump52

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

OK a recap: rebuilt carb tonight. cleaned every little orifice I could find, used fine wire on the little holes behind the welch plugs, replaced the float, leveled it upside down, replaced the plastic washers and fiber washer behind the slow speed needle valve sleeve. Replaced the fuel pump (hung it upside down since I used a generic Sierra one - not enough hose to reach the outlet to the carb in the down position). This motor has a choke and a slow speed needle valve. Bulb pumps up hard, fills the little glass bowl. Started after about 4 pulls with the choke out. Throttle position on "start". Let it run a while to warm up. Run a little rough, but not too bad. Evened out a little. Pushed choke in and it dies. Starts right back up with the choke. Push in choke it dies. Will run all night with the choke out. Long enough for the thermostat to open, the water was just a little warm coming out the sputter. Idled it down a little long enough to put in gear and revved it a little. Runs fairly smooth. Put back in nuetral, push choke in it dies. Gave up tonight. Read over the carb rebuild thread after I messed with it. I started the slow speed needle valve at 3/4 turn out rather than 1 1/2 turns. Just set that now and will try it again tomorrow. Didn't blow into the inlet with it upside down to see if the needle valve closed off. Right now I have two questions:
1. There wasn't a spring on the needle valve when I took the carb apart. It just dropped into the orifice. Should there be one?
2. Would mounting the fuel pump with the outlet up be an issue? I am going to get longer hose and reinstall with the outlet to carb down like the original was.
 

ezeke

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

You can eliminate the fuel pump as the cause of your problem in one of two ways: elevate the fuel tank above the engine so that gravity fills the float bowl; or keep a little steady pressure on the primer bulb. If either method fails to keep the engine running without the choke, the fuel pump is not the problem.

Since all the fuel pump does is lift fuel to the float bowl to keep it filled, it is unlikely that it is responsible for your problem.

The engine pulls the air and fuel through the carburetor. When you can keep the engine running only with the choke on, the engine is running lean and needs more gas in the fuel/air mix. The choke prevents air from entering the carburetor, thus forcing the engine to pull a richer fuel/air mixture. You want to enrich the mix for cold starting, but not after that.

At idle, the fuel/air mix is controlled by the lean/rich needle; turning the needle counter-clockwise adds more fuel to the fuel/air mix. The needle must seat properly, have the correct seals and be properly adjusted while running under load in order for the engine to perform optimally.

Additionally, the high speed jet, which lies horizontally behind the drain plug on the float bowl, must be kept open and clear of any debris. Aerosol carburetor cleaner blown into the jet should emerge from a small hole at the base of the throttle plate if the orifice is clear.

The 1964 and 1965 9.5 carburetors had a different needle valve setup than the later models, and did not use a spring. I'll see if I can find a diagram and add it to this thread.
 

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sbump52

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

Thanks Ezeke. The high speed jet behind the drain screw did have debris in it. I also put the fuel pump back on the right way. The .250 hose from the fuel pump to carb didn't fit too tight so I used some new left over hose from my old 55 10hp. Fits tighter and the clamp will hold it on. I have a couple more questions before I put the carb back together on on the motor. Should I use rubber and gasket sealer 847 on the two gaskets? How about the one on the fuel pump to block? From your diagram in your previous post I can see I left out one fiber washer from the slow speed needle valve. I will put that in a little while. We are having a storm now, so work is suspended for now. Thanks again.
 

ezeke

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

I don't use sealer on new carburetor gaskets, but some do.

I do check the mating surfaces for defects and use a steel ruler to check the surfaces to be sure that they are level.
 

sbump52

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

Thank you sir, I will leave them dry and put it together. Checked the surfaces and they look good and flat. Tomorrow I will try again and see what happens. One more thing, on the slow speed needle valve if I understand correct turning it in or clockwise will increase idle speed? When we talk idle speed are we talking idle at the "start" position or its slowest throttle position?
 

samo_ott

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

OMG, those 9.5's have funny looking carbs!

And I never use sealant on the carb gaskets... I don't want it getting sucked in!
 

sbump52

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

Yes they are a wierd shape. The whole motor looks scrunched down. Any ideas on the idle question posed above??
 

ezeke

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Re: 64 9.5 fuel delivery questions

The engine will tend to run faster as you turn the lean rich knob counter- clockwise, but that will eventually make too rich a mixture. At that point you should turn the knob clockwise in small increments until it coughs, then back counter-clockwise until it runs smoothly. If pulling the choke out a little on a warm engine causes the engine to run faster, you are still too lean and need to adjust counter-clockwise until the engine does not accelerate with a little choke. Make your final adjustment under load on the water and idling in gear.

Keep in mind that all of the fuel has to go through that high speed needle so that it needs to be kept clear.

The factory manual says to allow 15 seconds between each incremental change to allow the engine to adjust to each change. It also says to begin the adjustments at 3/4 turn out from gently seated while running at 700-750 RPM. After all adjustments are made reduce the idle speed to 550 RPM in gear under way using the idle adjustment knob on the tiller handle.

If you ever want to have a tach on the motor, it is possible to use a TinyTach http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/index.php ; Click the thumbnail to see how I placed it on one of mine. Be sure to contact the company first to determine which model to use.
 

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