1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

[Lee Taylor]

As the topic states, Johnson 115 tilt/trim problem. I have no issue with the unit lifting the motor UP, it just doesn't want to go back down. Have searched other threads with no joy at this point in time (still looking), so I started my own thread.

The motor runs whether you task it UP or DOWN. I have filled the res. with plenty of fluid. Have attempted a system bleed, but don't know if I've been doing it correctly; help here with the correct procedure would be greatly appreciated. Anyway, had to manually lower the motor to get it to come down. Could I possibly have a problem with the piston? Or is my problem strictly lying by way of bleeding the unit? Took the boat out last weekend and everything still worked. Only thing noted was that it got the the point in cruise (or sitting for that matter) that i have to slightly raise the motor in trim to get it to go back down (thereby thinking bleed/low fluid problem)...and now it won't go down at all afer simply sitting on the trailer at the house. I'm losing valuble fishing time having the boat on the trailer and out of the water. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!! If I haven't been elaborate enough in explaining something, please ask questions...I will answer to the best of my ability!! THANKS!!

 

[Lee Taylor]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

Ttt...

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

You may be able to revive the functions by cycling the motor up and down, but you will need to retorque the manual release to specification (45-55 inch pounds) first.

Lift and support the motor with the trail lock and add fluid until it runs out, then seal. Release the trail lock and move the motor up and down several times, providing whatever manual assistance is required. Repeat the process until the unit works correctly.

The boat should be level when refilling the unit. Also, be sure that your battery is fully charged and that the PT&T wiring is in good condition.

 

[Lee Taylor]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

Thanks much for the response! Finally someone! HAHA...Sorry, just really would like to get this taken care of.

At any rate, as far as everything you mentioned above, the only thing I haven't done is get the "manual release" screw to crack lose. It is indeed the large flat blade (accepting) screw below the electric motor, correct? I have yet to find (in our vast array of tools, really) a flat blade screwdriver big enough to get this screw loose. So far, in order for me to lower the motor at all, I've had to crack lose the hyd. line on the bottom side of the piston itself. I did some further research after my post last night, and ran across a post from a gentleman that had, seemingly, the exact same problem I have. He had mentioned something about a "trim check valve" being stuck and how he used something called Pb Blaster to clean it up. He couldn't get the manual release open on his unit either and also had to resort to the hyd. line on the underside of the piston. Like I said, after as much research as a man can do in an evening...I went out and made the attempt...to no avail.

You mentioned cycling or lifting the motor up and down to free it up; only problem is needing to get that screw broke loose. I'm thinking though that if I can accomplish this without BREAKING the lips of the screw itself...I'll be in business. But with the limited mobility that I've been faced with thus far, it doesn't really surprise me that I haven't fixed it yet after reading what the problem should be.

Also, for what it's worth...I did end up pulling both lines that drive the piston up and down. Cleared the piston of all hyd. oil to make sure that there wasn't possibly some obvious resistance within the piston itself. Appeared to operate as it should.

I guess I'm needing to break loose that "i'll be" DAMNED screw. You mention 45-55 IN/LBS...when it feels more than 45-55 FT/LBS to break loose, LMAO.... Thanks much for the response ezeke. Anything more you can provide to me with what I've just mentioned will be greatly appreciated!! THANKS!!

(I am relatively new to any kind of marine maintenance. So I'm relying heavily on my mechanical aptitude and electronics training [6 years as Electronics Technician in the Navy) to accomplish this, and undoubtedly future tasks. So if anything I say appears as a dumb comment or question, I ask anyone/everyone to please be kind )

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

Leave the manual release for the moment and see if you can help the motor up while someone else works the switch.

When you do move the manual release, its only a few turns before you hit the retaining ring - that would have to be removed if for some reason you want to go further.

 

[Lee Taylor]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

I actually need to get it DOWN. Unit goes up just fine. And as far as the "assistance"...I had (not myself) and 245 lb man trying to get it go back down while I worked the switch. Everything that has to do with wiring or electrical on that boat is in perfect working order . As soon as I got my hands on it, I made sure of this. Is indeed the grandfathers boat, but I know he'll never have a problem with me using it as long as everything works or "miraculously" fixes itself

Anything beyond this, and THAT screw for me right now? I'm about to make the 15 mile jog out to his place to see if I can't get that broken loose if there is really nothing else for me to try at this point. What do you think?

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

You have to get the hydraulic fluid back in and all of the air out and seal it so that it cannot leak. Use at least a 3/8 flat head srewdriver to loosen the recessed manual release from the side of the transom bracket 3-4 turns.

For any work requiring disassembly, you will need the factory service manual, Part #406,519.

BTW, the trail lock has to be released before the motor can go down.

Use the on-line parts catalog diagram for the PT&T for your specific motor, found here: http://epc.brp.com/default.aspx?brands=ej&lang=e

Please click the thumbnail.

 

[Lee Taylor]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

In the picture you posted, I circled two items in blue. Screw labeled as item #60, is what I was under the impression of as being the manual release. And set screws labeled as items #3, are the bleeder screws, correct? There are no other visible screws, set screws etc. that I can get to without completely removing the PTT unit out from underneath the motor mount on the transom. nothing on the port side or stbd accessible. I should have taken a picture while I was there...especially since the camera was right there in my truck!! I really thought I was onto something having the supposed manual release plug out and nothing happening, ha.

At any rate, like I said...what you have labeled as the appropriate manual release screw, I didn't see at all. I looked all around that unit for ANYTHING else. Could it be the mount is possibly different. I know the engine is a 1978 Johnson 115ELT. There were 3 115HP engine options for that year as far as parts are concerned.

 

[Lee Taylor]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

And most definitely, the spring loaded trail lock is back out of the way. The motor sounds different in each of the two directions it operates; it's as if when you cycle the switch to move the unit DOWN...it's not pulling any hyd. oil. Maybe I should take a short video and post it up on YouTube or something, lol.

If I had to guess, especially with having the boat out last weekend and having to "fiddle" with the TT switch UP in order to get the unit to catch and move DOWN...it's like a check valve or something is stuck inside. And I suppose had I been on the correct screw for the manual release, I could have made some kind of progress today.... Keep the info coming Ezeke. When the problem does get resolved (and it no doubt will through perseverance)...you'll be my hero, lol.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

The manual release screw is as shown on the OEM PT&T. It is located from a recess on the side of the transom bracket. The transom brackets are bolted to the transom to hold the engine on the boat.

The fill screw to replace the fluid is also as shown.

 

[Lee Taylor]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

Sounds like I'll be headed back out there tomorrow. I've got work tonight and am headed in soon. Definitely looks to be right there on the side of the transom mount. I'll fill in the blanks and take some pictures tomorrow. Will keep this updated. Once again, more than helpful. Thanks much!

 

[Lee Taylor]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

The reverse lock check valve looks to be what screw/cover I removed today, lol. That's what I get for assuming. Pictures are worth everything, thanks.

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

You need a big *** blade screwdriver with a square shaft that takes a wrench, put your shoulder into it.

if that don't do the trick an impact screwdriver and hammer will.

the release valve can be identified by the circlip retainer to keep it from coming out all the way.

It sounds like you have an air pocket, just cycle up and down a few times manually if necessary and keep refilling fluid resi. It'll self bleed.

 

[Lee Taylor]

Re: 1978 Johnson 115 PTT problem...HELP PLEASE!

Alright well, I got it working again. Didn't do anything beyond what I've already said above except for crack the manual release valve and physically lift the unit up and down several times. Perhaps a stuck trim check valve?? Seems like a reliable suspect from whats been laid before me at this point. Thoughts?

Now its time to flush out the ATF/Pb Blaster mix I have in there for some new hyd. oil. Special thanks to Ezeke for all the diagrams, and everyone else who had a hand in this. Really enjoy the site; definitely going to become a regular "attendee" to the forums so that next I won't have to ask so many questions, lol. THANKS AGAIN!!