Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

[jcbass7]

first post on here so bear with me..

I am getting the boat ready for the water and the last time we had it in (two seasons ago) we took on water and the culprit was found to be the shift cable bellows... after inspection both the shift cable bellows and exhaust bellows needed replacement. I went ahead and bought all three bellows, the adhesive, and the gaskets needed.

I got it all apart this morning and noticed oil in the u-j bellows and surface rust on the u-joint itself:

So this is obviously a problem... Replacing the bellows should get rid of any water that made it in, and therefore the rust, but if i had oil in there that means I need to do some seals further forward correct?

Also here is the Gimbal Bearing.. I've tried to move the center but it is solid and my hands slide on the grease without any bearing movement at all.. The very center should move freely correct?

My question is... what do you think this will cost me if I bring it to a shop/marina how i have it apart now and they fix what I have mentioned above?

I'd do it myself, but I have almost no time left and little experience or desire to get dirty with the Gimbal bearing... although I could do it if necessary.

 

[jcbass7]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

sorry, forgot this info..

98' Bayliner (engine is original)
Alpha Gen II
3.0 liter Mercruisier I/O

 

[mkast]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

Shop rates vary across the country.
Is this the first time for the yearly maintenance you've been skipping?
Bellows, gimbal bearing, shaft, universal joints and reseal the drive.
A decent chunk of change.

 

[jcbass7]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

well it was my father's boat and he recently said I could put it on a mooring I got where I am stationed... So I am home on vacation trying to get it ready, but I keep finding more problems.

I know he has never taken the drive off like I have and he has owned the boat for at least 5 years if not 7. So he has never replaced Bellow's or checked the Gimbal etc... and I guess it shows. I only cracked it open because two of the Bellows had cracked and let water in (shift and exhaust)

So it definitely needs a shaft and U-joints? hmm thats unfortunate for my wallet..

 

[ShaneCarroll]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

Personally, I know you say you don't have much time to fix it yourself, but that is the best way to go. At a shop, I would say rough estimate you're looking at at least $850. If you buy the parts yourself, $350 tops. I changed all of that in my boat recently, and I only had about two hours a weekend to do it. It took about 8 or 9 weeks to do. People on here can save you much time, unfortunately I was too gung-ho to do it without asking questions first.

 

[PitchFork]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

You absolutely need U-Joints and gimble bearing contact JHall on eBay when I replaced my gimble and ujoints I found he had a complete Transom Kit for $110 that included ujoints, gimble, bellows, reseal kit, and water hoses. I am not sure about the shaft you might be able to sand it or have it sand blasted. I notice your drive is not locked in forward gear make sure when you are putting it back together your turn the shoe straight and turn the prop shaft to the left to lock it in forward or the drive will not go back on. I know this from experience that I learned last week. Also make sure the shift on the lanyard is in forward it probably is or the drive would not have come off unless you forced it. Clean and lube the shifter fork. You will need a bearing puller, engine alignment tool (a must), and other tools to complete the job.

If you do it yourself and you probably should because it will cost you probably around $950+, use the forums and research and ask for help. I learned a lot from the forums. I recently changed my gimble bearing put the drive back on and a week later pulled the drive again and changed the u-joints. I am glad I did because three of the u-joint caps where not getting any grease and were locked up.

Good Luck,
Greg

 

[Verboaten]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

IMO surface rust on those the u-joints is not an issue. Do they feel rough or binding when you swivel them?

Gimbal bearing can be removed with a three or two jaw slide hammer. Install using a length of 3" PVC (Schedule 40) as a driver. Alignment tool is nice but not always needed.

The kits on ebay are OK, pretty much the same aftermarket stuff you find at most marina/repair places.

 

[jcbass7]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

So i got a better look at everything today and made a very good effort to see if the race in that gimbal bearing will move at all... Its frozen solid. Here is my hypothesis..

Two years ago while docked the boat took on water due to the shift cable bellows being split open. The water didn't sink the boat but there was definitely a fair amount in the boat. The u-joint bellows had no cracks and I am pretty sure no water was getting in through that, but if the shaft seal was letting oil in (which i found oil in the bellows) then it could have just as easily let a little water in when the boat was swamped like that. Therefore causing the rust I see on the U joints, and more importantly causing the Gimbal bearing race to be rusted solid, no movement at all...

The rust on the U joints really appears to just be surface and they move just fine and smooth.

The real problems right now appear to be whatever seals there are in front of the gimbal (that let water and oil in) and the bearing itself. If i can pick it all up cheap enough I'll do it myself but I'll be on a ship for the next two weeks away from home and the boat...

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

I know you don't want to hear this but your starter is toast too if that much water was in the boat. Did all of this happen in fresh or salt water?

 

[ken_23434]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

I replaced all 3 bellows, gimbal bearing, and both u-joints on my Alpha-1 a couple months ago.

The gimbal bearing inner race should turn with no effort. The water in there has definitely ruined that bearing. I would not consider doing anything other than replacing it.

I bought a kit at a local boat shop for $150 that came with all 3 bellows, the gimbal bearing, and the required gaskets. There is no seal at the gimbal bearing (unless the Gen II is different than the Gen I, double it though) The bellows and the outdrive are the "seals" that keep water out of the u-joint bellows. If you fill that bellows all the way with water, the water will leak INTO the boat, through the gimbal bearing.

As for the u-joints, I got mine at Pep Boys for about $8 each. The surface rust on that shaft is no concern. Just clean it near the two O-rings, or clean it all if you want to.

So, you can fix it for less than $200 in parts, easily.

You will rack up some more $$ in the required tools, though.

• 3 Jaw slide Hammer. I have one from Harbor Freight, but some auto stores have a "loaner tool" program. You should be able to find a 3 Jaw slide hammer from them. I think mine is a 15 pound hammer.
  
  There is a special "socket" needed to remove the 2 pins that hold the gimbal ring on. Those bolts look like they have a really large internal Torx head. I have read that people use a standard 1/2" drive square drive bit, but that does not sound safe to me. My bit cost about $40. I think it is worth the cost.
  
  If you use an "exhaust tube" instead of "exhaust bellows" you will not need the exhaust bellows expansion tool (~$50). Save the head-ache and use a tube unstead of the bellows. (experience) Plus, you will not need to buy another single use tool.
  
  An engine alignment tool (~ $50) is needed to align the engine. However, if you have not moved the engine mounts, then the engine should still be in alignment. I would recommend getting the tool to check the alignment. It's good to check alignment everytime the outdrive is pulled, just to save yourself burning up an engine coupler (and being stranded) if the engine alignment shifts.
  
  You will also need some sort of press or clamps to remove and reinstall the u-joints. Personnally, I use a large (~8") C-clamp along with some sockets. I use a socket to push on one side and a larger socket at the other side to "catch" on the other side.

You will also need grease and a grease gun, bellows adhesive & perma-seal.

I would recommend draining the outdrive and check for water in the outdrive oil. If there is, there is a seal in the outdrive that might have failed (no experience with this seal).

You might want to consider replacing the water pump (~ $60) in the outdrive while you have the drive off. I would actually HIGHLY recommend doing that. No special tools needed for that. But, since the boat has sat for 2 seasons, it is nearly a "must do".

By the way, the "adults only sticky" has a link to download the official Mercruiser Service Manuals.

There are also some sites that have lots of pictures and I think I found a video of doing parts of this job.

It's a little bit of work, but doing it yourself will save you $500 + in labor from the quotes I have seen.

 

[jcbass7]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

update.. got a few parts at the local marina this afternoon.. including the Gimbal bearing and the seal right in front of it.

I'm having trouble getting the old bearing out, since i do not have a heavy enough slide hammer. I'm using one that can't be more than 5 lbs.. I going to see if i can rent the right one somewhere.

The starter has already been replaced, since you guys guessed it, it was fried

Before I did any work on the drive I made sure the engine still ran and it does just fine, needs a little tlc (oil, filter, fuel filter, clean gas, etc) but it ran.


I'll keep you updated to let you know when i get this sucker out

 

[jcbass7]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

I know you don't want to hear this but your starter is toast too if that much water was in the boat. Did all of this happen in fresh or salt water?

salt

 

[jcbass7]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

I just got the old bearing out, 20 blows with a 15lb slide hammer and a three prong puller. Worked great, now my quick question is about the seal right behind the bearing, I have a new one, (see pic).. and the old one (see pic).. how exactly do i remove and install this part? It looks like it just pulls out the back, now that the bearing is gone and i slide the new one in?

 

[jcbass7]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

update,

just used the same puller and removed the seal, new seal and bearing go in first thing tomorrow morning

 

[BOATnSC]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

I think I am a similar situation as you. I bought a used boat and it knocks while turing. I think it is the u joints, but have not pulled the drive yet. I plan to do it myself so I am following your thread closely. While I'm in there might as well replace the gimbal too. bellows were replaced two years ago. The pics are great, keep them coming.

 

[bamadave]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

Quick question, was the lower shift cable replaced when the bellows was replaced? If not, I would highly recommend it, being salt water was the culprit. Also, I'd do a pressure test after the impeller is replaced to insure you do not have any bad seals in the outdrive. And the alignment tool IS a necessary tool when replacing the gimble bearing.

 

[victorc1]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

Hello, I'm new at this as a matter of fact I bought a 1996 Monte Rey with a Mercruiser Alphaone and it has the same problem as yours. I bought all the parts today and I'm going to try to mount them tomorrow, anyway one thing that they told me in the parts store is on the housing of the bearings there is a hole where grease goes in and on the outside of the main housing there is a grease coupling. You have to make sure that they are both aligned right so that when you put grease in the coupling it goes into the bearing. Hope this helps you.

 

[jcbass7]

Re: Bellow replacement... Gimbal bearing troubles..?

Well the boat runs great, I finished it up in late June and have been using it since, the Bellows and Gimball and everything have been awesome so far. Although I definitely need a new prop for the boat... We dusted a rock yesterday and bent a little on the edge. Looks like I get to check the lower unit to make sure I didn't wreck and of my hard work... She still runs fine, just need a new prop.

Thanks for all the help guys!