No spark on my Penta 4cyl

[Handegard]

My dad gave me his old boat, I picked it up last weekend. It's been sitting, and was parked due to a bad relay. I've fixed the relay already, and now I can turn it over, but I get no spark.

The cap and rotor are like new inside, including the points. I've verified continuity between the distributor and the coil. I've triend a seperate coil, and verified coil + is battery voltage.

As I see it, it can only be distributor/wire/coil, but seemingly all is good.

Any suggestions? I'm new to boat repair, so while it's a car motor, I'm sure the constant water exposure must throw a little curveball to a wheeled vehicle tech's troubleshooting process...

Edit- Sorry, it's a 1981 Glassmate, Volvo Penta 4cyl (yet to ID) and a 270 outdrive.

 

[rucaradio]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

Check the dwell and gap on the points... Had the same issue with mine when I bought her - the previous owner replaced the points, but didn't change the condenser or gap them properly. After 2 weeks of troubleshooting I decided to re-gap the points. Turned the key and she started right up.

 

[Brian Drew]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

maybe a new coil?

 

[Brian Drew]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

This is a getto way to get a spark but if need at the wrong place and time,You go to your sarter take thick enough wire go from the purple/yellow wired nut to you're 'RED' positive nut,then try to start it,that may work,till ya figure it out.

 

[Handegard]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

Check the dwell and gap on the points... Had the same issue with mine when I bought her - the previous owner replaced the points, but didn't change the condenser or gap them properly. After 2 weeks of troubleshooting I decided to re-gap the points. Turned the key and she started right up.

This is the part where I sheepishly admit that I have never actually worked on anything with points in my career.

I have a Dwell/Tach but I've never used it.

The boat was running previously, but one day my dad went to get it out for the summer and it had a relay that had failed, and he never replaced it, which I did yesterday.

I'm not against checking the points, if anyone wants to give me a some pointers (no pun intended) on doing so.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

This is a getto way to get a spark but if need at the wrong place and time,You go to your sarter take thick enough wire go from the purple/yellow wired nut to you're 'RED' positive nut,then try to start it,that may work,till ya figure it out.

Brian, what you just described is for cranking the engine...this cranks fine!

 

[Handegard]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

maybe a new coil?

I've tried swapping coils, it didn't change anything, but I'm going to grab the coil off my mustang just to make sure I didn't swap in a bad coil. But the one I swapped in was on a running car barely 2 months ago, and has just been sitting.

This is a getto way to get a spark but if need at the wrong place and time,You go to your sarter take thick enough wire go from the purple/yellow wired nut to you're 'RED' positive nut,then try to start it,that may work,till ya figure it out.

Are you saying to jump from the + on the coil to the starter where the battery cable is?

I've got a good 12.5volts at the coil already, but I'm going to try running a new + line to the coil, and a new wire from the disty to the coil. Just to rule out corroded wiring as a problem.

 

[Handegard]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

Ok guys, I just got a little caught up in the "its not a car" mentality, once I sat down and pretended I was just working on a car it got alot easier...

The points needed a good cleaning. The contacts were corroded, but the rest looked fine. So at first glance, I thought nothing was wrong here...

So I got spark, and it popped back through the carb a couple times during cranking. I don't have fuel yet, just sprayed some starter fluid on the air cleaner.

I need to replace a freeze plug, and the carb probably needs a good cleaning. Are carb gaskets readily available for this thing? Where from?

Oh, it's a AQ120...

 

[P 0 P E Y E]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

It is good that you have a positive attitude toward performing hands on repairs to the boat.

I would suggest you look around this fine forum before you continue trying to start that engine.

Engines that sit for multi seasons can have issues like old gas, water in the gas, mice nests, chewed wires, no lube oil, inoperative safety devises and a bunch of other stuff.

This stuff could cause more work for you, the chief engineer and captain of the boat.

By trying to start the engine with bad gas, you might just suck contaminates into the float bowl and the idle passages of the carb, You should make sure you have a clean carb, good fuel, good filters and good gas.

Points and condenser should be replaced. A bad condenser has made me say uncle on running active boats, more time than I care to publicly admit.

So on the one hand, You are the engineer, captain and mechanic of this fine vessel, On the other hand I would suggest you take it slow, one system at a time.

You will get it going in no time. Good luck and enjoy.

Funny, This engine once gave me an education in float needle sticking closed 101.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

Throw the can of starter fluid away. It can damage your engine.

 

[Handegard]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

It is good that you have a positive attitude toward performing hands on repairs to the boat.

I would suggest you look around this fine forum before you continue trying to start that engine.

Engines that sit for multi seasons can have issues like old gas, water in the gas, mice nests, chewed wires, no lube oil, inoperative safety devises and a bunch of other stuff.

This stuff could cause more work for you, the chief engineer and captain of the boat.

By trying to start the engine with bad gas, you might just suck contaminates into the float bowl and the idle passages of the carb, You should make sure you have a clean carb, good fuel, good filters and good gas.

Points and condenser should be replaced. A bad condenser has made me say uncle on running active boats, more time than I care to publicly admit.

So on the one hand, You are the engineer, captain and mechanic of this fine vessel, On the other hand I would suggest you take it slow, one system at a time.

You will get it going in no time. Good luck and enjoy.

Funny, This engine once gave me an education in float needle sticking closed 101.

I'm a mechanic for a living, so yes I'm pretty comfortable in the engine bay. I'm aware of the things that need to be taken care of before starting. The fuel tank and carb were both drained before the boat was stored, and I'm going to flush the cooling system, do a oil change, and learn a little about the outboard before I run the motor for any period of time. For now, I'm just turning it over trying to get spark, up next is cooling, then fuel...

I'm planning to do a full tune up soon. The approach I'm being required to take is to demonstrate that the boat isn't a lost cause to my better half. I need to get it to run with a minimal of investment (Maybe $50-100 I can spend) and show her that it floats. After that, I can start spending money on the things I want, full tune up, carpet, and some upholstery.

I'm doing the compartmental approach. Get the motor started. Get the cooling system working. Get the outdrive checked out. Then do all the little things.

This will be the first automotive carb I've gone through myself that was expected to actually be used. I've torn a couple apart for learning, but never put them back on a car. But it looks like it has more in common with the smaller motorcycle and lawnmower carbs I've worked with than with the Holleys I tore apart...

Throw the can of starter fluid away. It can damage your engine.

I'm not trying to run the motor on it. I just wanted to get a pop-or two out of it. I'm not that much of a greenhorn

 

[bruceb58]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

I'm not trying to run the motor on it. I just wanted to get a pop-or two out of it. I'm not that much of a greenhorn

One pop with the piston coming up means the end of your engine...your choice!

 

[Handegard]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

Unless there is something considerably different about a marine engine (I was under the impression this is just a 4 stroke spark fired OHV engine like any other, albeit modified for water usage, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was completely different) then I'm not afraid of the starter fluid. Starting fluid gets used all the time in my shop and other shops around the world on cars and trucks.

Feel free to correct me if there is something different, but I've never had a problem using the stuff, and I don't see how I'd have a problem on a properly timed engine....

 

[bruceb58]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

Starting fluid is very volatile way more volatile than gasoline so you really can't control the explosion. It can explode with the piston on its way up causing all sorts of pressures the engine is not designed for.

 

[Handegard]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

I ended up taking the points out and cleaning them really good, got spark now.

I think I may have a rusty valve, I can get it to try and start, pops once or twice, then blows back out the carb... I've checked the valve timing and the ignition timing (as best I can)

So for now, wiring troubles are all taken care of, and the carb is all clean, time to replace a popped freeze plug and flush the cooling system...

 

[P 0 P E Y E]

Re: No spark on my Penta 4cyl

Engine "freeze plug " if it has been pushed out by ice, you may have to think twice. see if the oil turns to milk. Fake the cooling system with a garden hose and run water thru the engine with out running the engine to see if you have manifold or cooling system freeze damage, Especially if you continue to experience no start and run.

if it is a pin hole leak, give it a tweak. seal or ignore till you get start and run to restore.

Rusty valve? Check compression, if stuck open you would hear it when cranking the engine over it should make a noise and change the speed of cranking when the lower or no compression piston gets a free ride on the compression stroke. The engine would sound like da da da deeee. da da da dee. the dee being the less Resistance compression stroke of the dead cylinder.

If vale is stuck seated or closed, you will hear a loud snap each time it was supposed to move

You hear a popping sound? if its in the intake while you have no spark it is an intake valve, if you get pop in carb while attempting to run, it is firring order or ignition timing.

You said you were a mechanic for a living. I congratulate you on choosing a respectable trade in a challenging field.

You will find that being a mechanic for a living means you will learn a thing or two on each and very paying job, performance of maintenance and repair of your own stuff and from others. It all adds up to continuing to be the learning experience known as a career.

You may learn a smart thing from an otherwise dumb co-worker. I know I have. You may and will show a smart guy a thing or seven, I lean form each and every encounter with a wrench..problem for me is I am starting to forget.

Sorry to get all Zen on you, I am back. Get the bigger hammer out and tap the distributor cap to see if it is loose (just kidding)

Continue the scientific approach checking one system at at time. It should take about 2 hours.

Good luck and hope you get the thing running.