Rectifier

[gato760]

I have a 1996 Force 120 outboard and the rectifier looks fried. I bought this outboard and saw it run while it was on an engine stand, but it was started by jumping straight to the starter. I can not start the motor and the wiring harness gets real hot when I try and crank it.

Does anyone know if the rectifier has anything to do with the harness heating up?

 

[keepNitreel]

Re: Rectifier

I don't have the answer to your question but I do know you can get a new rectifier from Radio Shack for close to nothing.

 

[chitownborn]

Re: Rectifier

the rectifier is for the charging of the battery, if the rectifier is no good your battery wont charge, if your harness is heating up you might have something miss wired, also check all electrical connections, to be good & tight & clean, check battery for full charge good luck don

 

[gato760]

Re: Rectifier

Thanks for the replys guys. I guess I should give a little more background info on the boat and motor. I bought a champion bass boat about a year ago and got this motor from the same guys, but the motor was not to this boat originally. He bought this boat for the 200 HP Merc that was on it for his deep hull bay-boat and did not care about the bass boat because he doesn't fish. So the harness and connectors from the boat may not be compatible or wired correctly for the 1996 Force 120HP I put on it.

I toned all the leads on the wiring harness and everything is correct, but I did noticed the rectifier/regulator looks fried. I thought that maybe causing my wires to heat up, but I doubt it. I think something is miss wired from the boats harness or the ground is not a thick enough wire.

When I go to turn the key on the boat the starter is slugish and the wires on the harness heat up. The voltage on the battery is good ~12V (new battery).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[keepNitreel]

Re: Rectifier

So to make it clear, you using the merc ignition switch & wiring harness with the force?
I don't have the experiance to say if the harness is compatiable(different color code, ign. switch) or not. I just wanted to make sure your your issue was clear for the pro's.

I'm sure someone will chime in to confirm/verify compatibility.

 

[gato760]

Re: Rectifier

So to make it clear, you using the merc ignition switch & wiring harness with the force?

The wiring from the boat side was for a Merc. The wiring harness that is on the motor is the original Force harness. Hope that clears it up!!

 

[john from md]

Re: Rectifier

Which wire is it that is actually heating up?

John

 

[gato760]

Re: Rectifier

Which wire is it that is actually heating up?

John

The ground wire is heating up.

I took a pic of the rectifier:

 

[john from md]

Re: Rectifier

The rectifier is fried, no doubt about that. Now as to your problem of the ground wire heating up. I'm going to assume that you mean the main ground wire going from the battery to the engine block as you did not get specific.

A ground wire heating up usually a good indicator for a high resistance in the circuit. This can be from broken strands along the wire path or at the terminal lugs, poor electrical bond between the terminal end and the battery or block or corrosion at the bolt used to terminate the ground at the engine. Strands break from mishandling which usually happens when parts are removed for salvage.

The fried voltage regulator may not have anything to do with the ground heating up.

Since you are mating two different systems, you need to start at the switch and go wire to wire to determine what it is that is connected to what. The switch is going to be the key to the success of the operations.

I suggest that you go with the required switch for a Force engine as it will be easier to match up the wires that way.

Don't count on the boat mechanic to do anything but put a hit on your pocket book. They are usually specialist on one system. You have an hybrid and have to do things differently.

There is a wealth of experience on this board if you are willing to have patience and work with us.

Tashasdaddy and Silvertip hang out on the electical, electronics board. You may want to cross post this there and see what input they have.

Regards,
John

 

[gato760]

Re: Rectifier

Thanks very much for the info John!!

 

[gato760]

Re: Rectifier

I finally had time to work on my boat since I bought my new house (completely gutted the house and remodeled it). I just want to let it be known that I got my boat to turn over yesterday. I bought an new starter and new ground wires and it turns over like a champ!! I am excited, but I still need to replace the rectifier and my tilt and trim is not working and I hope it is because there is no hydraulic fluid.

Anyone know good hydraulic fluid for tilt/trim motor? What about oil for the lower end (gear oil)?

Thanks

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rectifier

I finally had time to work on my boat since I bought my new house (completely gutted the house and remodeled it). I just want to let it be known that I got my boat to turn over yesterday. I bought an new starter and new ground wires and it turns over like a champ!! I am excited, but I still need to replace the rectifier and my tilt and trim is not working and I hope it is because there is no hydraulic fluid.

Anyone know good hydraulic fluid for tilt/trim motor? What about oil for the lower end (gear oil)?

Thanks

check the amperage of your existing regulator/rectifier. It looks like a generic snowmobile regulator. Some of those can't handle the juice that a 120hp puts out to a low battery. If the rating is low (10-15Amps) then replace the rectifier and hope for best. If the rating is high (35-50A) then you need to find out why it fried before moving on.

The trim fluid is either Automatic Transmission Fluid or hydraulic oil. Red=ATF and Tan=oil. Don't use anything with additives or cleaning agents. It does to trim what ethanol does fuel lines.

If low trim fluid is low then the system works but only goes up half way.
If motor isn't spinning it's usually relays, switch, or motor.
If motor spinning but no lift it is usually a busted pump.
If somebody put in cheap ATF then its usually complete overhaul.

 

[gato760]

Force 120hp problems

Force 120hp problems

Thanks RRitt!!

I bought some ATF for the hydraulic motor and it works. I can not bleed it properly because there is a problem with one of the tilt cylinders (starboard) has a blown seal and leaks. I guess that explains why I did not have any fluid in the motor.

Anyone know how difficult this is to repair or if parts are available?



I found one more problem. I hooked up water muffs yesterday to run water through so I would not overheat my motor and there is no water circulating through the head. I removed the top plug on the top side of the head and not a drop. Most likely cause is the impeller is fubar.

What is the easiest way to get to the water pump?

Thanks in advance

 

[john from md]

Re: Rectifier

Parts are still available for most of the Force engines. Try iboats, mercruiserparts.com, dougrussel.com, crowleymarine.com.

As for the water pump, you have to remove the lower to get to it. You will have to remove the snout to get to the hidden bolt.

It is illustrated pretty good in the Clymer and Seloc manual.

John

 

[RRitt]

Re: Force 120hp problems

Re: Force 120hp problems

Thanks RRitt!!

I bought some ATF for the hydraulic motor and it works. I can not bleed it properly because there is a problem with one of the tilt cylinders (starboard) has a blown seal and leaks. I guess that explains why I did not have any fluid in the motor.

Anyone know how difficult this is to repair or if parts are available?



I found one more problem. I hooked up water muffs yesterday to run water through so I would not overheat my motor and there is no water circulating through the head. I removed the top plug on the top side of the head and not a drop. Most likely cause is the impeller is fubar.

What is the easiest way to get to the water pump?

Thanks in advance

there is no bleeding. you run the system up and down a few times. the air bubbles go back to reservoir and float to top.

a 1996 should only have one lift cylinder. If fluid is actually leaking out from cylinder - as in you can see it dripping from top, bottom, or side - then it is fairly seriously messed up.

Mercury no longer sells the parts to fix the ram P/N 813432A3. Try Ebay if all else fails. Or maybe Sierra makes an equivalent.

 

[gato760]

Re: Rectifier

Thanks John and RRitt for the replies!!

I misstated the year of my Force 120 the first time I posted, it is actually a '93 Force 120 according to the serial number. The guy I bought it from did not know what year it was. The trim/tilt I have is the Force version that uses a power trim cylinder and two lift cylinders. The starboard side power tilt cylinder is leaking from the top. The fluid comes out pinkish because it has a lot of "trapped air" when it bleeds out the top. I can see part of a seal that looks ragged at the top of the cylinder and that is probably the culprit.

Do they sell rebuild kits for these cylinders? If not hopefully it is only the top seal and I can find it elsewhere.

I guess I will have to remove the lower unit as soon as I get time to get to the water pump. I have a Clymer manual, but I want to say that it did not really show me how to remove the lower gearcase. There are so many variations...

Thanks again guys!!

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rectifier

You probably got the bad fluid from mercury and your orings are crumbling from exposure. Maybe not - but probably. I don't know any good way to distinguish this problem from others. It bleeds down quickly while other problems tend to bleed down slowly.

If you got the bad fluid then you're going to do a complete overhaul. If not, then maybe just replacing or fixing the tilt ram. You can get seals from mercury (i think?). But ... that design shouldn't leak from top unless the threads are stripped. At any rate, if bad fluid then you're going to have to gut and flush the pump too.

 

[john from md]

Re: Rectifier

Page 406 of the Clymer manual covers removal and installation of your lower gear case. If you are happy with your steering at the RPM 'THAT YOU NORMALLY RIDE AT' mark the snout position so you can reinstall it. If it pulls to the left or right, AT THE RPM THAT YOU NORMALLY RIDE AT' then you can adjust it after you get it back in the water.

John

 

[gato760]

Re: Rectifier

Thanks again gentlemen for the information.

The other cylinders do not have a leak, so I am praying the leaky one does not have to be completely gutted. I will try and locate the innards once I take it apart.

Page 406...well I am blind and out of practice. It has been a long time since I have read a shop manual. This is sad too, because I was in charge of our technical orders/manuals when I was a jet engine mechanic. I was looking at the schematic on pages 452 and 453 and I thought to myself how do I get to this point?? lol

Thanks again

 

[gato760]

Re: Rectifier

One last thing I forgot to mention. I do not know if the motor pulls because I have yet to take this boat into the water since I bought it. I will mark the snout anyways.

-Felix