1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

[ss mino]

Hi, this is my first thread on iboats. I have read several threads prior.

Sorry for the long thread I just wanted everyone to have all the facts in hopes we can narrow down the problem.

I have a 1973 larson boat that has a 1973 65 hp johnson seahorse outboard motor.

I bought this boat last year and it had sat for about four years. The first time I took it out it ran great. The second time it ran great for 2 hours and then it wouldn't go into high gear it would bog down as if the fuel was restricted. So in responce to the problem I began trouble shooting and repairing. I first checked for compression and spark 115 psi on all three cylinders good spark from cable to spark plug. Replaced spark plugs(champions no spark gap), changed impeller and gear oil I usedpremium type C oil and an OMC impeller(no metal shards or milky substance old impeler still in good shape)bought a new prop, bought a new gas tank and primer ball omc/johnson quality, replaced the fuel pump and fuel lines, rebuilt all three carbs. I used OMC parts no after market(found a small shard of metal in the high speed jet of the top carb) cleaned and recleaned, adjusted floats so they were level when turned upside down, replaced caps, low speed and high speed jets I believe are fixed so no adjustment, all in all total rebuild. I very carefully mixed 16 oz of johnson 2 sroke oil in with exactly six gallons of fuel. pumped the primer ball set the lower unit into a tank of water and turned the key. It fired right up (with the warm up lever down)after 2 or 3 crankes and idled perfect. I eased into reverse no problem. Eased it into foward no problem reved it up for a second no problem. Then I shut her down because my tank was loosing water. I pulled the motor out of the tank and it sat for about 3 days. Yesterday I go to the lake (2 hour drive). Before I left I put earmuffs on and started the motor and let it idle for less then a minute it fired right up with warm up lever down idled perfect. I get to the lake fires right up goes into reverse with a little trouble not bad goes into foward no problem. I take to the dock and shut it down while I move my trailer. I go to restart and it takes forever to keep it idleing and when I put it in gear it stalls and dies. After 5 minuts or so I get it in gear and away I go I get just outside the no wake zone and it stalls and dies I trie for about an hour to restart it idles decent but when I put it in gear it stalls and dies. My primer ball seems to be going limp after it idles for awhile not completley limp but just a little its not rock hard. The vent on my gas tank is open and I see no gas lines leaking. I did try adjusting the idel adjusment screw but had no luck. I also adjusted the idle lever adjusment to get a higher idle because at the lower idle it would die.

I had to paddle back to shore and my wife who was with me was not happy about that she wants me to sell the boat but I feel like I am so close to fixing it. Problem now is I don't no where to begin any help is greatly appreciated and thank you in advance ss mino

 

[kerseyray]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

I had the same problem with my 65 evinrude. My carb bowl gaskets were covering the small jets in the side of the bowls where the primary jet is and could only tell it by checking the bottom side of the gasket and seeing the imprint from the jets on it. Not sure if this is your problem, my gaskets were made of a rubbery material and squeezed out over them when they were tightened. Mine also ran good on muffs but in the water with pressure different story. I'm running good now. Hope this helps...

 

[jdsgrog]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

The primer bulb should not stay rock solid when the motor is running. So that is all right. But to see if it is a fuel delivery problem, spray some gas/oil mix directly into the carb and see if it starts up for a second or two. If it does, it can be fuel delivery problem. If not, it's an ignition problem. Did you check your coils? Also check the plugs to see if they are fouled in any way or even too clean. Also, check compression on your cylinders. If compression on any cylinder is considerably lower than the other(s), it can cause problems.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

idle speed too slow, carb adjustment, ethanol. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=299680

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

Start with ignition. What you are going through is very common with these motors.

You are probably running on less than all three cylinders. I'm not ruling out fuel delivery, but you did a pretty thorough job of dealing with that. Further, I see no mention of ignition system rebuild. The first thing that I would do is to put an inductive timing light to work. Use it on each cylinder, one at a time, to see if any are not firing, or are misfiring. While you can do this with the motor "on the muffs," you'll get a better view of things if you do it under a load.

My guess is that you are going to find that you need a new powerpack. You might also need one or more ignition coils. Timer base replacement is another possibility. These parts can be expensive collectively, but the good news is that you don't have to pay BRP prices. Sierra and/or CDI parts are fine. In fact, the parts that BRP currently sells for this motor, are aftermarket parts branded as BRP, anyway.

BTW, 115 psi per cylinder isn't particularly high. The eveness is good, but the numbers are somewhat low for a '73 65hp. Many such motors yield values in the high 120s, high 130s, or even in the 140+ range. I wouldn't rule your motor out as a good, usable outboard, but you may notice that it doesn't quite develop the power that other engines of the same hp do.

Try the timing light test and let us know how you make out. In the meantime, get an OEM service manual for this motor - you'll save yourself alot of time and headaches.

 

[ss mino]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

Now that you mention it the gaskets I had were rubbery and seemed like they barly left enough room for the jet opening. I guess I will take the carbs off and take a look.

What did you do? Enlarge the hole?

 

[ss mino]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

I picked up a timing light today and I already have a repair manuel for this boat I am going to check out the ignition system first if I don't fid any problems then I will recheck the carbs. Thanks for the help I will keep you posted

 

[kerseyray]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

On the carb gaskets I just switched to the better quality gaskets, made of a fiber. Hope ya get her up and runnin soon. Good luck

 

[ss mino]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

Hey, jay merrill
Well I put the lower unit in a tank and removed the prop so I could put the motor into gear. I don't have a test wheel to put on so I don't know if that causes major problems. The motor starts fine and idles good. I hooked up the timming light to all three cables each one showed the spark flashing consistanly. I then put the motor into gear about 2/3 throttle reved up ran great for about 15-20 seconds then it bogged down for 5 seconds then reved back up for 15-20 seconds and so on. I hooked up the light to each of the cylnder cables while it was boged down to see if one was not fireing off. All of the spark plugs fired at the speed in which the motor was running fast when fast slow when bogged down. None the less they all fired consistanly. So I figure the problem is an ignition problem because of how the motor revs up and down but I don't know what to replace. Also when the motor is put into WOT it runs for 15 seconds then stalls and dies. I know I am probly not being very technical so I hope you follow me. My question is is there more trouble shooting for me to do? If so what do I need to do and how? If you think the problem is ignition what parts do I need to get? Thanks I realy appreciate the feed back

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

I picked up a timing light today and I already have a repair manuel for this boat I am going to check out the ignition system first if I don't fid any problems then I will recheck the carbs. Thanks for the help I will keep you posted

Do you have the OEM manual (OMC Service Manual) or an aftermarket manual?

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

Don't rev your motor up in a tank with no prop, or on the muffs! You need some resistance to keep the motor from running away. I sure hope you didn't actually open the throttle all the way with no prop on it - if so, you probably ran it way over max rpm!

Since you seem to be getting good spark that is consistent, it might be time to rethink the fuel delivery issue. Your low speed needle valves are adjustable, but the high speed orifices are not. That does not mean that you don't have to take them out for cleaning and clearing of any debris that might be present. You will need a special screwdriver (narrow shoulders) to do this. Do a search in the J/E forum section for info how to make one.

As I suggested in the short post above, you need an OMC Service Manual for this motor. Don't waste your time on aftermarket manuals. They are too vague to be of much help and some of the info in many of them is flat wrong.

Really, I think that you should follow the troubleshooting steps in the OEM manual, step by step, system by system. Sooner or later, you will come up with some clues as to what is going on.

One thing that I should say, is that the symptom of running at rpm, then slowing down and speeding back up again, made me think of a bad fuel pump. Since you replaced it, however, I'm scratching my head a bit. Same with the floats in the carbs. If they are incorrectly set, and the bowls are not able to fill properly, you could get such a symptom.

At any rate, do your troubleshooting procedures and keep us posted. If you are not sure about something, ask us first. Hopefully was can keep you out of trouble by preventing mistakes.

 

[ss mino]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

Hey, jay merrill
Well now I know why the motor stalled at WOT. I only did it once so hopfully I did not mess any thing up. I have looked through the manuel and I can not seem to find where it talks about adjusting the low speed needle valves - speaking of valves I was under the impression these carbs only had one low speed valve and one high speed jet. When I did the rebuild I made a screw driver removed both and cleaned them. When I replaced them I thought they were fixed so I simply tightened them down. Do I need to back the low speed needle up? If so how much? Thanks

 

[ss mino]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

The manuel I have is an OMC manuel that I downloaded off the johnson evinrude web site

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

I didn't know that you can download a service manual - are you sure that's what you have? Any chance its an owners manual? There is quite a bit of difference between the two.

What web address did you get the manual from?

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

BTW, I stand corrected - you do have fixed orifices for both high and low speed fuel metering. Most OMC motors of that era have fixed high speed and adjustable low speed, so I opened my mouth before I double checked.

If your just looking at the motor with the cover off, the tip off is that you don't have an adjustment knob coming out of the front of the air silencer cover.

 

[ss mino]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

jay merrill
Well I seem to be making a real idiot out of myself on these threads. I looked up how to adjust your carbs from the thread above. I found the high speed jet behind the plug on the bowl. I took it out cleaned it and then I tried to adjust them like they said to but it didn't work quit like they said. I got the motor to quit reving up and down now it is contant. I just don't know what it is going to do when I put a load on it at the lake. I don't know do you think I got it fixed?

 

[ss mino]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

jay merrill

I downloaded the manual from evinruderepair.com it seems to be the reapair manual I have the owners manual and there is a huge difference between the two.

I did not realize you wrote back before I posted the last thread. I guess I will screw down and gently seat the high speed jet and then follow the directions for the one jet adjustment. May be this will work out after all thanks

 

[ss mino]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

jay merril,

I tried to adjust the low speed jets by folloing the instructions from the thread from above but I could never get the motor to die out. I would end up screwing the jet all the way in. I tried just setting them but that did't work either. Plus the top and bottom carbs the jets kept screwing them selves back in I set the screws at a 1/4 turn out from seated. It idels good goes into reverse WOT it goes into foward gear but when you put down WOT it stalls and dies. about 1/4 throttle is all you can give it. I am still curiouse as to weather or not it will handle the load when in the lake or if it will do like it did last time. I don't mind only going half speed but I dont wnat to get stranded again while I try to figure things out. I don't know what do you think?

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

OK, now I'm confused. Most OMC engines of that vintage have fixed HS orifices and adjustable slow speed needle valves. That is why I assumed that your has this arrangement, in my first posts on the matter. In looking at shop.evinrude.com, however, it looks like the slow speed setup is a fixed orifice. Are you sure of what you have?

Also ... stop trying to run your motor at WOT with no resistance against accelleration!!!!!! You are going to blow it up if a previously misfiring cylinder catches and it winds up quickly!!!!!! If you are going to apply lots of throttle, you need a large enough barrel to leave the prop on or a test wheel! Do one of those two things or do your testing with the boat in the water.


PS: I went to the website that you referenced. This does not appear to be a BRP website. It is also obvious that what they are selling, is not an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) manual.

There are dozens of people selling digital repair manuals that are either scanned directly from someone else's (Seloc, Clymer, etc.) publication, or are simply rewritten from those documents. Aside from issues of copyright infringement, many people consider even the original documents to be a waste of time.

Do yourself a huge favor and buy a real OEM manual. Iboats sells them, so you can get one right here. They are also available via a number of internet sources. Bottom line, however, is that the document must be an original document, published by Outboard Marine Corporation, or a licensed copy of such a document.

PSS: I've been surfing around trying to see if the digital manual that you bought is a direct ripoff of the work of others. I don't see any known manuals that cover exactly the same models and years, but it is interesting to note that there are several entities selling a digital manual that covers exactly the same information. That suggests that they are all using a manual that I haven't found, or they are all compiling info from the same group of previously published manuals.

If you discover that copyright infringement has occurred, you really ought to demand your money back, because these people have no right to sell you the information that they provided.

 

[TJShag13]

Re: 1973 65hp johnson stalls when put in gear

I could be wrong here, but I thought they switched from the hydro electric shift in '73 to mechanical shift which doesn't use the Type C premium lower unit oil?
Could that possibly be part of the problem here if I am correct?