Outboard in automotive use?

[duanedragon]

Hello, I'm a new forum member and would like to get some input from people with more knowledge of outboards than I have, (probably aren't many people with LESS knowledge- lol). Would a large multi-cylinder 2 stroke outboard motor function bolted to a Volkswagen Beetle's trans-axle? I've been considering re-powering with a Mazda rotary engine but I figured that if I'm already going to crap in my hand and wear it as a hat I might as well explore some even stranger power sources. I've noticed that some of the outboards are making 250hp which is enough to push a Beetle to low 12's or even mid-11's on street tires and pump gas. Kennedy Engineering make adapters for Volkswagens for just about any engine and would probably fab up a flywheel and clutch assembly if I asked nice. There are already some significant problems that could render the vehicle an un-drivable trailer queen. The cooling system would have to be built from scratch, (Mazda rotary engines have terrible thermal efficiency and put out huge amounts of heat so anything that works for that swap should be more than adequate for a large 2-stroke). Re-powering it would turn the vehicle into a one-off parts and maintenance nightmare rivaled only by Fiat owners. VW trans-axles have 4 widely spaced gear ranges that would not be well suited to a 2-stroke's inherently narrow power band. Large 2-strokes are very expensive. Correct me if I'm wrong here but 2-strokes lower end oiling is done via premix and the crank and rods would scuff, heat up, and turn into molten slag if they had to oppose the force of moving an automobile. Premix on the street makes a car look like it is either on fire or is powered by coal, plus it's a drag to have to add premix even if it is automatically metered. If the bottom end is oiled via premix then the engine could be mounted with the crankshaft horizontal instead of vertical and everything should be fine assuming that the fuel delivery system be altered to work in the engine's new inclination. Man oh man, the more I think about this the worse it sounds. The engines look very light and due to a Beetles low weight, (1640lbs with a full tank), it might be a mean little hummer. This could possibly be the stupidest thing many of you have ever seen and I am willing to accept public ridicule if it saves me hassles down the road.

Thanks!

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

It's not really feasable due to the location of the exhaust on an outboard and the cooling system is total loss through the exhaust.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

There's no reason you couldn't re-route the water outlets to leave a dry exhaust - it's done in racing apps all the time. Using the outboards existing exhaust tuner might help with routing the exhaust out, too.

As for oiling, you have to use a 2-stroke type system, whether it be a modern DFI or old mix-it-up. You can use cleaner burning oils to leave less of a smoke trail. Some synthetics are pretty good at minimal smoking...

Carbureted motors would have to have a new manifold made up, as they need to rest vertically. An EFI or DFI might be a bit easier to manage in a prone position...

 

[5150abf]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

I just don't think it would work, you could get it in the car and hook it to the tranny but the motr isn't designed to constantly run up and down the tach like a car engine, they are made to run a constant high rpm.

It would be chaper to get Porsche engine and bolt it in or hop up a VW engine, I saw a Karman Ghia SMOKE a bike at the local drag strip once so they can be made to make alot of power.

But, no, just for all the engineering involved.

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

There's no reason you couldn't re-route the water outlets to leave a dry exhaust - it's done in racing apps all the time. Using the outboards existing exhaust tuner might help with routing the exhaust out, too.

As for oiling, you have to use a 2-stroke type system, whether it be a modern DFI or old mix-it-up. You can use cleaner burning oils to leave less of a smoke trail. Some synthetics are pretty good at minimal smoking...

Carbureted motors would have to have a new manifold made up, as they need to rest vertically. An EFI or DFI might be a bit easier to manage in a prone position...

How would you pump the coolant? Belt driven water pump?

 

[Capt Ron]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

Could use an electric pump and electric fan on the radiator. BJ Shram designed the Scorpion helicopter to use a V4 OMC. Cooling and exhaust would be the least of the problems involved, not impossible and certainly a good challenge.
One problem that I can think of is the sudden shock to the crankshaft when you dump the clutch, the crank isn't designed for this and may snap like a pretzel...an expensive one.

Capt Ron

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

If you really want to use an OB, Use a Honda OB and since their OBs are base on car engines, you can just go get an Accord engine and use that. Very simple ...LOL.

 

[wbeaton]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

Crazy? Maybe. But not nearly as crazy as the stinky hat you are about to wear.

You are not the first to think of powering acar with an outboard motor. Check out the "Outboard Powered Car" plans from a 1932 magazine.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

About 40 years ago, I remember a buick powered by an outboard 2 cylinder engine as a feature in Hot Rod magazine.

 

[duanedragon]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

I would like to thank everyone who replied in this thread. You have been by far the most helpful and informative internet community I have dealt with. All of you have great points, the most damning is the observation that marine 2-strokes were not designed to withstand shock-loads and run in a very narrow rpm range as watercraft are 'geared' with the pitch, diameter, and number of blades on the prop.

The personal account of seeing a Porsche powered Ghia walk away from a motorcycle is one of the reasons I like Type 1's so much. Very, very, (very very very) few people have any idea how fiercely a well sorted 200 horsepower bug can launch and pull to the 1/8th mile mark. Porsche engines are too expensive for me to justify doing stuff that could break it, and even Type 4 engines are lucky to see fresh oil a dozen times before needing to be scattered, inspected, and resealed.

Again, thank you all.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

Back in the late 1960's I helped with an OMC V-4 outboard fitted to a Volkswagon tranny and frame. The body was a fiberglas kit car with all the good looking sweeping lines and curves in a dark blue mettallic.

The V-4 was adapted to the transaxle with a 2" thick aluminum adapter plate and the motor was counterrotated by changing the timing linkage.

The radiator was a heater core in front laid horizontally and it scooped up air when moving.

It went well, sounded completely different, and when adding fuel, the owner had to pop a top on a can of Evinrude outboard oil for every 6 gallons of gas.

 

[Ehouse]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

Saab used to use 2 strokes in its cars. My girl friend had one back in the 60's.

Ehouse

 

[Shockley]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

I know that I will probably take a lot of ridicule with this comment, but here goes anyway. You might consider an engine out of a jet ski. Some of those reach the rpms and hp you will need, and they are used to the shock of winding up and down. Besides, it will get one more of those things out of the water.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

I know that I will probably take a lot of ridicule with this comment, but here goes anyway. You might consider an engine out of a jet ski. Some of those reach the rpms and hp you will need, and they are used to the shock of winding up and down. Besides, it will get one more of those things out of the water.

Not only would I not ridicule you, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

 

[JB]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

There have been many cars converted to use adapted 2 stroke outboard engines. I drove an H-Modified sports racer that was powered by a Merc 6 and laid out like a large racing kart with a devin body. Went like stink. . . and stunk.

No such adaptation would be able to pass EPA regs for licensing today.

 

[Bass Tracker TX17]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

there was a similar thread a little while ago.

check it out..

here

 

[getusummm]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

I think a snowmobile engine would be better suited

 

[Randybeall]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

There have been many cars converted to use adapted 2 stroke outboard engines. I drove an H-Modified sports racer that was powered by a Merc 6 and laid out like a large racing kart with a devin body. Went like stink. . . and stunk.

No such adaptation would be able to pass EPA regs for licensing today.

I used to work SCCA sports car races at Green Valley Raceway. The Rattler comes to mind as a two stroke powered sports racer. We all thought it was great!

 

[SKIBUM1M]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

Why reinvent the wheel. Outboards are very expensive and problematic. you can build a VW engine that will give more power than you will ever need with no engineering just buying parts off the shelf and a little bit of boaring. An 1835 is a fast reliable motor and i have even seen a type 1 dragster that does the quarter mile in the mid 6's but isnt exactly reliable.

 

[Rowroy]

Re: Outboard in automotive use?

For the love of all things . . . Please don't build an aborted VW. God knows there are more than enough running around already.

I would not be too quick to dismiss the type IV. You should talk to Jake Raby at www.aircooledtechnology.com .

Personally, I like the type I engine. I have a 1776 and a 2332 in my VW's and couldn't be happier with either of them.