1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

[Nathan T]

Hi, I am really hoping that some of you on here can/will help me figure out what the problem is with this carburetor.

I just bought this motor for $10. It had no spark so I changed the coil, cleaned and set the points to .020", snipped the ends off the plug wire and put a new plug in it. It basically started right up after that.

I had it running for a few seconds after I did all of that several different times, but it was just on a saw horse. I put the motor on a boat and put it in the water and it didn't want to run. I got it to start by manually choking it (blocking the hole in the carb off with my fingers while pulling it over). But it would stall basically as soon as I removed my fingers from covering up the hole in the carb.

I forgot to mention that while I was changing the coil and stuff, I took the carb off and cleaned it, along with the gas tank.

I'm not sure how you are supposed to operate this motor as far as starting it, but the knob that is on the front that goes from prime to lean, when you turn it to prime and it pushes the needle down inside the float bowl gas leaks out around the needle. The needle goes through a triangle shaped hole where it comes out the top of the float bowl, and there isn't any kind of seal on there, but it doesn't look like it was even designed to use one??? It only leaks gas out of that hole when you have it turned to prime, and it only does it for a split second. It doesn't sit there and leak the whole time it's turned to prime.

Does anyone on here know anything about these carbs? This isn't getting enough gas to stay running on its own. But there is nothing in the carb that is blocking any passages in there. It is as clean as clean can be.

I don't know if that needle (or whatever it is techincally called) that is for the prime and lean is set right, because when you put it together it can only turn so far, so you have to have that set pretty close to the right amount out when you put it together. When I took it apart that needle valve was about 1/2 a turn out so that's where I put it after I put it back together.

Can some of you please give me some advice with this? I can post some pictures of the carburetor if you'd like me to. When it's running the motor runs really good.

I don't have very much money so I can't buy a newer motor right now. I'm trying to get this running so I can take my 2 sons out in our boat fishing. We're sick of rowing.

Thank you in advance for the help.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Hi, I am really hoping that some of you on here can/will help me figure out what the problem is with this carburetor.

I just bought this motor for $10. It had no spark so I changed the coil, cleaned and set the points to .020", snipped the ends off the plug wire and put a new plug in it. It basically started right up after that.

I had it running for a few seconds after I did all of that several different times, but it was just on a saw horse. I put the motor on a boat and put it in the water and it didn't want to run. I got it to start by manually choking it (blocking the hole in the carb off with my fingers while pulling it over). But it would stall basically as soon as I removed my fingers from covering up the hole in the carb.

I forgot to mention that while I was changing the coil and stuff, I took the carb off and cleaned it, along with the gas tank.

I'm not sure how you are supposed to operate this motor as far as starting it, but the knob that is on the front that goes from prime to lean, when you turn it to prime and it pushes the needle down inside the float bowl gas leaks out around the needle. The needle goes through a triangle shaped hole where it comes out the top of the float bowl, and there isn't any kind of seal on there, but it doesn't look like it was even designed to use one??? It only leaks gas out of that hole when you have it turned to prime, and it only does it for a split second. It doesn't sit there and leak the whole time it's turned to prime.

Does anyone on here know anything about these carbs? This isn't getting enough gas to stay running on its own. But there is nothing in the carb that is blocking any passages in there. It is as clean as clean can be.

I don't know if that needle (or whatever it is techincally called) that is for the prime and lean is set right, because when you put it together it can only turn so far, so you have to have that set pretty close to the right amount out when you put it together. When I took it apart that needle valve was about 1/2 a turn out so that's where I put it after I put it back together.

Can some of you please give me some advice with this? I can post some pictures of the carburetor if you'd like me to. When it's running the motor runs really good.

I don't have very much money so I can't buy a newer motor right now. I'm trying to get this running so I can take my 2 sons out in our boat fishing. We're sick of rowing.

Thank you in advance for the help.

You already have it all figured out, now just need to make sense of what you know. Turning the knob to prime floods the carburetor. That is done instead of a choke. The purpose of either method is to get extra fuel in the motor for starting.

There is no gasket on the carburetor top. When you hold the float pin down, gas should overflow. But it should keep coming as long as the pin is held down. Could your in-tank filter be clogged? Or perhaps you don't have enough gas in the tank (don't laugh, I did that this week).

Normal opening for the needle valve is about 3/8 turn. So you are close enough at 1/2 to get it started.

But what I really wonder is what is the condition of the motor other than the carburetor? Running out of the water but not in the water is a sign of a worn out powerhead. How is the compression? How is the crankcase pressure? Has it been overheated (unfortunatly very common on those motors)?

Hint: Those won't start (prime) right if tilted forward. Have it sitting level or even tilted slightly back. The prime gas has to run toward the motor, not out the opening.

 

[Nathan T]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Thank you very much for the help. It sounds like you've been around a few of these motors...

When you say 3/8th of a turn, how do you set that right? Do you set it at 3/8 out then install the knob on the end with it pointed at prime? Or do you have it pointed to the right/lean? Is 3/8 the max opening or the minimum would be another way of putting it.

To be honest with you I didn't even know that there was an in tank filter. One of the first things I thought about was installing an inline filter, but I didn't know how I could with it having brass fuel line. There was (and still might be) some crud in the gas tank. It's not rust but I don't know what you'd call it. All I could do is swish fresh gas around inside the tank and try to flush it out, but I don't think I got it all. That drain nut under the float was full of tan colored chunks too when I took it apart.

When I took this back off/apart last night I noticed that the screw that goes down into the float wasn't tight anymore. It was when I first got this started.

One thing I also need to know is what is the screw for on the side of the carb? You can't adjust it when the side motor covers are on, but there are 3 screws on the side that you can take out and take that side circle shaped plate off the side of the carb. That circle shaped plate has arrows on it and it says rich the one way lean the other. One of those 3 screws has a tab piece on it with a 4th screw on that side. When you turn that screw with the carb off it sets how far open the "butterfly" in the carb is open. What is that supposed to be set at? And is that what the rich and lean is referring to? I'm assuming it is, but I want to make sure. When I took this apart that screw was set 3 1/2 turns out.

I'm guessing that the in tank filter must be part of the fuel valve in the gas tank, so I am going to go take that off the tank in a few minutes and unplug it, because I am sure that it's plugged.

I know you said that the power head might be toast since it runs out of the water but not in it, but it will run in the water if you keep covering the carb opening. It's just real hard to try to do that while starting the motor and trying to steer the boat all at the same time. And on top of that having the recoil rope break while you're dealing with all of that...

I haven't checked the compression but I will tonight and I will let you know. I don't know how to check the crankcase pressure though?

 

[Nathan T]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

I just wanted to let you know that I got a repair manual for this. They actually had it at my local library, along with at least 20 other outboard repair/service manuals. They even have 2 copies of Peter Hunns The Old Outboard Book in there.

I'm looking at a section in 2 of these books that are for the Gale model (I know this was made by Gale). One thing that's weird is it shows that the Gale has an impeller, I thought this thing was air cooled? Or maybe the regular Sea King was air cooled and the Gale wasn't?

At any rate I have the information I need to adjust the carb after I double check it to make sure it is absolutely clean.

Thanks again for the help and if I have any more questions I will let you know.

 

[Nathan T]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Update, it's running!!! I took the carb back off and recleaned it then I checked the tank out. I opened the fuel valve with the line disconnected from the carb and gas barely came out. So I screwed with the gas cap and it wasn't getting vented at all. I don't know how to totally fix it but I kept screwing it in and out until gas came out of the line on its own, but it's still not gushing out like it will with the cap right off. Is it supposed to? Or is it supposed to just slowly trickle out?

I have been running it in a garbage can full of water and it runs good. I still haven't figured out how to adjust the slow or low speed screw?

Is this motor air cooled? How can you tell if a motor is air cooled?

Thanks for the help.

 

[armyhooah]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Is this motor air cooled? How can you tell if a motor is air cooled?

Thanks for the help.

You can tell by: does the motor squirt water out of a hole on the side/back of the motor?

I have Clinton 5hp. Really finicky!

This is my first outboard and am in the same situation as yourself.

 

[sunkentreasure]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

If it's air cooled, the cylinder will have fins (like a Briggs and Stratton)......water cooled will have a smooth cast jacket around the cylinder.

Hint: Remove the entire fuel tap (valve) from the tank. Examine tank to make sure no "solids" are inside. Rinse with water if necessary. There is probably a small cylindrical bronze filter screen soldered into the valve. Do NOT try to clean with a pin! Remove the little valve handle by unscrewing the valve a few turns, then remove the hex shaped packing nut. Do NOT try to forcefully remove...just unscrew one and then the other until the handle and needle separate from the valve body. Trot on down to the local auto parts store and get a can of Berryman's Chemtool carburetor "tonic". Cut a soda can in half with scissors and pour the Berryman's in, then soak all fuel valve parts overnight. Pour the used Berryman's back into its can (can be reused many times) and blow all valve parts clean with compressed air, making sure air passes through all passages. Reassemble carefully by starting the valve needle in first until you can start the packing nut. Tighten packing nut just enough that there is a tiny bit of resistance when turning the valve. Reinstall the valve in the tank with just a touch of pipe "dope" or teflon tape. If using the tape, be sure no threads get into the valve or tank. Pour some fuel in the tank, open the valve and check your flow.......should be much better. The fuel line can be soaked in the same fashion if its plugged.

If, after all of this the flow is still sluggish, the vent on your cap may be stuck shut. It should unscrew a few turns in the normal direction to admit air to the tank. Try soaking the whole cap in Berryman's also, then apply gentle "persuasion" with padded jaw pliers to work it loose. Now, your tank is clean, the filter is clean, the line is clean and your vent is working. You should have all the fuel you need to the carb. The whole system including the carb has to be squeaky clean, or you may find yourself in the middle of a lake with no motor and no oars. Don't ask me how I know...........

This is an easy task and should be the first check on an old fuel system. I've seen many an experienced mechanic baffled by "no fuel at the carb" caused by gunked up old crud right at the valve!

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Your Sea King is water cooled, it should spit/spray some water out of holes/slits in the back of the leg when running. Follow the instructions given to make sure your cap vent is clear and the tank screen is clean. If you accidentally trash the screen, you can put a rubber gas line with inline filter on it instead. Get it running good and pumping water in a barrel and take it to the lake. It will run better when it's not breathing its own exhaust fumes. Run it up to speed and adjust the high-speed until it runs best, then richen the mixture a little (counterclockwise) and tighten the locking nut. Run it back down to idle and adjust the slow-speed screw until it idles okay and will return to idle nicely from high speed rpms. If it gets too hot to touch the cylinder while running, you have a cooling/water pump problem...probably should replace the impeller since you don't know it's lifespan or history.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

The impeller (properly called a "rotor") is forward of the propeller. Do not run the motor unless you have a healthy spray out the back. Those rotors are famous for swelling up from grease leaking out onto the rubber. I have a fix for that, but that's another subject.

The screw on the side is the slow speed mixture adjustment. It works by holding the throttle valve open a bit. Crude, but simple.

I bought another one of those 3hp motors today. Lets see, that makes about the 5th one I've owned, and the second for right now. Plus a 5hp.

 

[Nathan T]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Thanks for all of the replies and help.

I took the lower part of it apart tonight and cleaned everything. When I took the plug out for the lube (the bigger one of the two) water poured out (not out of the hole marked "water flush, but the gear lube hole). Then I took the smaller of the two lube screws out and a little more water came out. I then took it all apart and the gears themselves were still all coated and sitting in lube (actually it was pudding). It looked like the original lube and was the same consistency as pudding. It wasn't milky though. I figured it would be since there was water in the upper part but the stuff all down in the gears was just brown and really thick.

I think the rotor for the water pump might be shot. In the diagram I have in this repair manual it looks like the rotor fits tightly around the cam, but this isn't a tight fit in this thing. And there is no water coming out of the exhaust slits in the rear if that's where you were talking about tmcalavy. Well I take that back there is a tiny bit coming out of there, but not much. That was before I took it all apart and cleaned everything though, but I don't think it will do much better now.

I replaced the points, condenser and spark plug wire and boot tonight with new stuff. I already put the new coil in. Now it has fresh gear lube in it. But I hadn't checked this thread again to read all of your replies before I took taht all apart earlier tonight. I had planned on maybe taking it out on the lake tomorrow and trying it out, but now that I've read your posts I'm kind of bummed out because I probably need a new rotor for the water pump.

Does anyone know where to get that part from? I noticed that it had been saturated with lube (or at least that's what it looked like). It was soft and gummy. F R, what were you talking about when you mentioned fixing that problem? I was on vintageoutboard.com earlier and they show a rotor (they call it an impeller) part #900040 that looks like it's the right one, but their site says that only goes to 1948.

F R, do you know what the initial setting is supposed to be for that slow speed adjustment? This repair manual doesn't say. How do you properly set it? It really sucks that this motor doesn't appear to be pumping water correctly because it's running great.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Thanks for all of the replies and help.

I took the lower part of it apart tonight and cleaned everything. When I took the plug out for the lube (the bigger one of the two) water poured out (not out of the hole marked "water flush, but the gear lube hole). Then I took the smaller of the two lube screws out and a little more water came out. I then took it all apart and the gears themselves were still all coated and sitting in lube (actually it was pudding). It looked like the original lube and was the same consistency as pudding. It wasn't milky though. I figured it would be since there was water in the upper part but the stuff all down in the gears was just brown and really thick.

I think the rotor for the water pump might be shot. In the diagram I have in this repair manual it looks like the rotor fits tightly around the cam, but this isn't a tight fit in this thing. And there is no water coming out of the exhaust slits in the rear if that's where you were talking about tmcalavy. Well I take that back there is a tiny bit coming out of there, but not much. That was before I took it all apart and cleaned everything though, but I don't think it will do much better now.

I replaced the points, condenser and spark plug wire and boot tonight with new stuff. I already put the new coil in. Now it has fresh gear lube in it. But I hadn't checked this thread again to read all of your replies before I took taht all apart earlier tonight. I had planned on maybe taking it out on the lake tomorrow and trying it out, but now that I've read your posts I'm kind of bummed out because I probably need a new rotor for the water pump.

Does anyone know where to get that part from? I noticed that it had been saturated with lube (or at least that's what it looked like). It was soft and gummy. F R, what were you talking about when you mentioned fixing that problem? I was on vintageoutboard.com earlier and they show a rotor (they call it an impeller) part #900040 that looks like it's the right one, but their site says that only goes to 1948.

F R, do you know what the initial setting is supposed to be for that slow speed adjustment? This repair manual doesn't say. How do you properly set it? It really sucks that this motor doesn't appear to be pumping water correctly because it's running great.

If you truly do have a 1953 like you say you do, the impeller is part number 550683 and it is called a rotor. It is supposed to be rather firm rubber. I think it is still available from Evinrude dealers, but I get mine from Brian Wilcox http://www.chrystine.com/impellers/order.html
It is supposed to be a snug fit on the eccentric and just touch the outer housing at some point, with a space on the other side. If you watch that space as you slowly turn the shaft, it begins at the inlet hole and progresses around to the outlet. Then it appears at the inlet again. That space picks up a gulp of water each time around and forces it up through the water tube.

The spray is more of a slobber coming out all the holes and cracks. At all speeds.

Just screw the slow speed screw in far enough to hold the throttle valve open a bit and go from there.

What are you using for gear lube? Most people use Lubriplate #105.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

FR is spot on...don't give up on it. Get a new wobbler impeller and use Lubriplate in the LU. The cooling system on those is less than perfect, but it should do well with a new impeller. The price of all this advice?...pix of it running on the boat once you get it sorted out...we love eye candy.

 

[Nathan T]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

I have some updates, but first...

Jeff from Laing's Outboards told me it was a 1953. The model and serial number are: 35GG-9004B and 498411.

I called and talked to Brian Wilcox tonight and he said he has the rotor for $12 shipped. That's an extremely good deal if you ask me. I also talked to him about my 7 1/2 Elgin that I bought along with this Sea King, but that's another thread (that I will be starting soon).

I thought that I was getting an extremely slight "slobber" when I had it running in a 55 gallon or so trash can, but we took this out on the lake last night and I have good news and bad news about it. The good news is that it ran awesome. The bad news is that I just about (or maybe did slightly) overheated it. It got pretty warm. There was absolutely ZERO water coming out of the exhaust slits. It got pretty warm, the paint on the cylinder started smoking and it turned the paint on the jug a darker color than it was. But as soon as it started doing this I shut it off. I had a feeling it was going to overheat, but as soon as it started smoking the paint I shut it off. I then just fished where I was for over an hour and then drove about halfway back to the launch, stopped and fished again and let it cool off totally then drove back to the launch. The spot I drove to was about 400 yards out from the launch. That's how far I got before I knew for sure it was starting to want to overheat. It didn't stall or anything, I just decided to shut it down. I don't think I hurt the motor?, but I'm sure it wasn't good for it.

I used some Johnson or Evinrude (I forgot which it was) gear lube in the lower unit. It may have said OMC on it, I don't remember. A friend of mine had it sitting around from his last boat that he had, it was a few years old, but looked like new and it was unopened.

I went looking for Lubriplate #105 today but I didn't find any yet. I read another post somewhere saying that Tractor Supply has something similar. Do you know what that is? Because there is a Tractor Supply right by me and I might be able to get whatever they sell a lot easier if it's the same thing.

I am sending the money out to Brian tomorrow for the rotor. I should have it Thursday or Friday because he said he has those ready to go. Plus he's only a few hours from me so it will get here quick in the mail.

I'll definitely post some pics (or maybe a video) of it on the boat after I get the water pump fixed. I am really impressed at how good it runs. I just hope I didn't hurt it too bad yesterday...

 

[F_R]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

I have some updates, but first...

Jeff from Laing's Outboards told me it was a 1953. The model and serial number are: 35GG-9004B and 498411.

I called and talked to Brian Wilcox tonight and he said he has the rotor for $12 shipped. That's an extremely good deal if you ask me. I also talked to him about my 7 1/2 Elgin that I bought along with this Sea King, but that's another thread (that I will be starting soon).

I thought that I was getting an extremely slight "slobber" when I had it running in a 55 gallon or so trash can, but we took this out on the lake last night and I have good news and bad news about it. The good news is that it ran awesome. The bad news is that I just about (or maybe did slightly) overheated it. It got pretty warm. There was absolutely ZERO water coming out of the exhaust slits. It got pretty warm, the paint on the cylinder started smoking and it turned the paint on the jug a darker color than it was. But as soon as it started doing this I shut it off. I had a feeling it was going to overheat, but as soon as it started smoking the paint I shut it off. I then just fished where I was for over an hour and then drove about halfway back to the launch, stopped and fished again and let it cool off totally then drove back to the launch. The spot I drove to was about 400 yards out from the launch. That's how far I got before I knew for sure it was starting to want to overheat. It didn't stall or anything, I just decided to shut it down. I don't think I hurt the motor?, but I'm sure it wasn't good for it.

I used some Johnson or Evinrude (I forgot which it was) gear lube in the lower unit. It may have said OMC on it, I don't remember. A friend of mine had it sitting around from his last boat that he had, it was a few years old, but looked like new and it was unopened.

I went looking for Lubriplate #105 today but I didn't find any yet. I read another post somewhere saying that Tractor Supply has something similar. Do you know what that is? Because there is a Tractor Supply right by me and I might be able to get whatever they sell a lot easier if it's the same thing.

I am sending the money out to Brian tomorrow for the rotor. I should have it Thursday or Friday because he said he has those ready to go. Plus he's only a few hours from me so it will get here quick in the mail.

I'll definitely post some pics (or maybe a video) of it on the boat after I get the water pump fixed. I am really impressed at how good it runs. I just hope I didn't hurt it too bad yesterday...

NAPA Auto Parts sells the Lubriplate 105. It is called "Motor Assembly Grease" on the label. The farm store grease they are talking about is corn head grease. I haven't been able to find it here. Of course there isn't much corn grown here either.

You certainly didn't do it any good by running it hot. Most of the ones I have found have been cooked. I'm looking for a piston right now.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Brian's the man all right. You can buy Lubriplate 105 white engine assembly grease at most auto parts stores or online...Google the name to find distributors in your area. If you are in farm country...namely corn country, go to a real tractor dealership in a farming town and ask for corn head grease...same thing essentially. The nimrods at TS won't know what you're talking about...they hire from the same pool as Stuffmart.

 

[ohm116]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Carquest sells the Lubriplate as well.

 

[Nathan T]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Hey thanks, I had already checked their site for distributors and saw that Carquest carries it, but none of the ones near me were listed so I just went in the one here in town earlier and they don't have it. Napa does have it though so I am going to get some from them. I also checked in Tractor Supply earlier but I couldn't find anything that I thought would have been "corn head grease" , and I didn't ask anyone. I'll just get the Lubriplate, the Napa store is only a few blocks from me. I found some Lucas Semi Synthetic Assembly Lube at Auto Zone and almost asked if that would work yesterday...

Hey FR (or anyone else that knows for sure), what were you referring to when you said you had a fix for the rotor getting soaked with lube? Was the fix for that just using that Lubriplate #105?

If I would have screwed this motor up from getting it hot teh other day, what would it have screwed up exactly? Just the rings? I told the guy I was with in the boat that I wished I had checked the compression before we took it out on the lake, then again after so I would have known for sure if it had hurt it at all.

When I put the new rotor in do I just install it dry? Or are you supposed to put something on the inner surface where the cam rubs?

I'll be taking pics of it on the water this weekend for you guys.

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

If you didn't run it long enough to lock it up, it's probably all right. You can install the wobbler impeller dry, no lube needed I think. I'd also like to know FR's tip to keep lube off the wobbler impellers. Good compression on those is 65 to 75 psi or more.

 

[Nathan T]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

Ok thanks. I'm gonna go check the compression on it right now just for something to do.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1953 Sea King 3hp carb problem, PLEASE help me figure it out

About the grease leak problem: If you look closely you will see that the seal is pressed into the prop shaft bushing. Pretty darn dumb on the part of the engineers. The bushing is made of Oilite. Oilite is a porous bearing material that soaks up oil for superior lubrication. That is why electic motors use it--a few drops of oil will run them all year. However, in this case, being porous, the grease goes right through it, right past the seal.

I press the bearing 1/4" out toward the gear end, leaving it below the pump surface, then cut off the protruding end. It would be nice if there would be a seal that fits in the resulting cavity, but I haven't found one. So, I make a spacer sleeve to press into the housing and the seal then presses into the sleeve.