Electric science, as seen on TV

Stachi

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Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

Stachi:

So how does the battery in my vehicle get charged then. The alternator and regulator does it, right?

Actually, I don't see any dis-advantage to using a jump-box, but I have never had any issues with jumper cables and two cars. I suspose that if both batteries were borderline, then the alternator might get a whipping, but is it possible that if you asked anyone whose car was in questionable shape, that they might have provided a jump. (People who carry jumper cables often do so because their vehicles are about one step from the grave yard. I know that when I did, it was because my vehicle was a piece of crap and often would not start anyway. Now that I have a decent vehicle, the cables hang in the garage. These same people often do not have a clue of the proper way to get or give a jump.)

Also, I think that when the vehicle is at idle, the alternator will put out a lower voltage. If correct, this will result in lower current, not higher.

In addition, as far as the jumper box, I see two possible concerns.
1. You do need to maintain them and make sure they are kept charged.
2. They are intentionally kept small, light (and cheap). This is as if you were trying to start your car with half a battery (cranking current wise, not voltage wise). That tends to limit the available time that you can run a starter, especially when the jumper box is cold from the trunk (like it usually is when someone needs a jump.) Why would I keep it in the trunk?
Because I have a good battery charger (actually 2) with an engine start function sitting in the garage at home and so the jumper box is worthless there. By the way, that same cold temperature tends to help protect the alternator from excessive heat rise.

TerryMSU

Terry ,do your own research online and see what you come up with....as I did.

P.S. ty Jaws ,seems like you learned the hard way as I did,it has happened to me twice in 30+ years...ie: good samaritan
 

TerryMSU

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

I initially intended to respond pointedly to the above, but I believe that it would be a waste of time. I do have one general question. Has anyone here seen (not just heard of second or third hand) this type of damage to a properly running car built within the last 10 (or even 15) years? If so, were the proper techniques followed?

Also, how many of you newer car/truck owners have car owners manuals that give instructions for jumping a vehicle?

For that matter, how did we get so far off topic?

TerryMSU
 

bandit86

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Nov 17, 2005
Messages
531
Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

I once boosted my friends international 466 diesel truck, 24V system with my hyndai pony. i hooked my 00 gauge welding cable turned into jumper cables up to one of the 2 gigantic batteries, and let my hyunday high idle for a while. his batteries were not dead, but down enough to crank slow. fired up first try.

most typical 4 cylinder car starters draw 160amps and v8s about 250 amps. A diesel V* will draw 650amps or more thats why it has 2 batteries.
I jump battery to battery, the inrush current is supplied by the battery that can do x amount of CC, usually over 500, so you can safely run few hundred amps without needing your alternator, unless your battery is nearing the end of it's life, then you will start working your alternator. i run the biggest batteries that can fit, usually 1000cca. Yes it costs more, but if I leave the lights on for a while, I have no problems.

cables not a big enough gauge act like a resistor. most people run small gauge jumper cables, so even less will go through your jumper cables. say #4 gauge, wich is better then the cheap crap at auto part sources, 12feet at 200 amps you loose 17.6%, it is physically impossible draw enough off your battery that your alternator would have to work hard to top off if you tried starting the other car right away.

Now if you leave the cables on to try to charge the other battery, a minute or 2 of this inrush will lower your battery to the level where your alternator has to work but then the other battery is not as low as before.

voltage drop calculator:
http://www.gadgetjq.com/wiring_size_guide.htm
 

45Auto

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Messages
2,842
Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

Been jumping off cars for family, kids, friends, and anybody that needs it for over 35 years now. All my cars have a GOOD set of jumper cables in the trunk. Probably jumped at least 8 or 10 a year, so somewhere at least well over 250 jump starts so far. Haven't had a problem yet.
 

just_crsn

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Feb 29, 2008
Messages
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Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

Just giving my 2 cents, I jumped a co workers full size chevy last Wednesday.Tuesday this week my battery light came on the dash. Never thought anything about it, thought it just needs a battery, it was four years old anyway......WRONG. I purchased a battery and replaced it....light was still on . Took it to the shop...needs an alternator. Not sure if it was causal....but seems suspicious.:mad:

Thanks Chris
 

Stachi

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
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Messages
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Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

Just giving my 2 cents, I jumped a co workers full size chevy last Wednesday.Tuesday this week my battery light came on the dash. Never thought anything about it, thought it just needs a battery, it was four years old anyway......WRONG. I purchased a battery and replaced it....light was still on . Took it to the shop...needs an alternator. Not sure if it was causal....but seems suspicious.:mad:

Thanks Chris
Sorry to hear about that bro....it does happen, onthe good side , you have a brand new battery and alternator...should be good to go for awhile....only use yer jumper cables to get YOU started....lol ;)
 

T-Bone Coug

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Messages
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Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

Anyone who jumps a car with a "dead battery" properly immediately removes the cables from the vehicle with the dead battery once it starts. Also, the proper technique as I was taught in my automotive class twenty years ago (taught by members of Toyota Racing Development) was to have the good vehicle NOT running. If these two rules are followed, the car with a bad alternator causing a dead battery immediately dies. A vehicle with only a dead battery continues running.

Some other key notes:

A tow truck coming to car with a dead battery on the side of the highway knows that this issue is NEVER just a dead battery. The alternator or charging circuit HAD TO fail for the vehicle's battery to die while driving. In a parking lot or driveway it is nearly always just a battery problem. Use a jump box on the side of the road, and your good vehicle in the driveway is ALMOST always safe.
 

Stachi

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
1,671
Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

Anyone who jumps a car with a "dead battery" properly immediately removes the cables from the vehicle with the dead battery once it starts. Also, the proper technique as I was taught in my automotive class twenty years ago (taught by members of Toyota Racing Development) was to have the good vehicle NOT running. If these two rules are followed, the car with a bad alternator causing a dead battery immediately dies. A vehicle with only a dead battery continues running.

Some other key notes:

A tow truck coming to car with a dead battery on the side of the highway knows that this issue is NEVER just a dead battery. The alternator or charging circuit HAD TO fail for the vehicle's battery to die while driving. In a parking lot or driveway it is nearly always just a battery problem. Use a jump box on the side of the road, and your good vehicle in the driveway is ALMOST always safe.

almost.....
 

Mark42

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Messages
9,334
Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

I find it highly suspicious that every time I replaced an alternator it was bad.
 

notaz3

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Jul 6, 2009
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Re: Electric science, as seen on TV

I drive a Diesel with not only the two batteries, but two alternators as well. There is a set of 25 foot 00 Gage jumper cables under my back seat, with a quick connect in my front bumper (the same kind AAA tow trucks use). I?ll jump anyone in any parking lot / driveway?

If you?re stranded on the side of the road I?ll help you call a tow truck (with a jump box) because you have a dead alternator not just a battery.
 
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