1989 GT200 woes...

[KreatureKris]

Greetings-

I recently purchased a 1989 Stratos 201 Pro with a 89 Johnson GT200. I took her to the shop and got a quote of $4,800 to make her purr again. The mechanic wants to put in a new powerhead, VRO pump, and impeller. Obviously my concern is the idea off needing a new powerhead... and VRO pump...

The motor has a knock- and I would choose to describe it more as a subdued clack with no excessive vibration being generated. The mechanic said my #5 cylinder was only making 30 psi and proceeded to tell me my motor was shot and therefore I needed all these new parts. Now, I dont have a long relationship with this mechanic, and my knowledge with outboards of this size is premature so I need some help digesting this news.

Is this mechanic having his way with me? Seems to me he's quoted me the most expensive part and I need a reality check from anyone else besides the one who would be cashing my check.

If an exhaust valve is bad could you loose compression? Is there even an exhaust valve? If so could this be the clack? Or could the clack be the VRO and the compression issue is separate? If its not an exhaust valve issue, can the compression issue be resolved by boring the cylinders and saving the powerhead? (unless the clack is interference elsewhere related to the powerhead) Mechanic said the clack "could" be a rod bearing... but that's speculation.

Offer me theories and advice based off your experience and knowledge of this motor. Arm me with information to converse with the mechanic so I am not totally ignorant. I hope my "situation" isn't actually as bad as quoted and that I could do the work myself. I had hoped the mechanic would do better at pinpointing the exact problem rather than just decide to put in a new powerhead. So, what specifically does he know that i dont- is it all necessary?

Thanks!!
Chris

 

[snodgrass.zach]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

i know its half way easy putting a power head on a motor as long as its complete power head and not just the block.... if i can do it u can believe me just pay attention when u take ur old power head off so u know how the new one goes on..... i really dont know what that crackle could be sorry just giving my 2 cents in and my lil experiance i have it would be cheaper if u didnt have to pay for labor...... by far much cheaper

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

personally i would not put 4,800 into a 20 year old motor. i think i would find another shop. apparently you only have one bad cylinder, which could be honed and new piston & rings. i would go with the new OMS fuel/oil pump.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

No valves on a 2-stroke engine. If you want to confirm what he is saying to you, then get a compression gauge (some auto parts stores will loan you one) and check the compression yourself. Low compression can be caused by something as simple as a bad head gasket, or it can be as bad a a melted piston or broken piston rings. It does not sound as if your mechanic attempted to do anything other than check the compression.

Many mechanics would rather not tear into a 20 year old motor, diagnose and fix an internal mechanical problem. He could get 10 hours into it, then discover that the crank is ruined, then you are still stuck with paying him the labor cost and still have no motor. Plus it's hard work. He'd rather bolt on a new power head from a box and charge you $4800

 

[KreatureKris]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

Thanks all for the feedback. I agree- its too much money for a 20 year old motor. I very much want to avoid the labor costs as they make up 20% of the estimate given. I am optimistic by hoping that a powerhead is just the sure fire "fix all" and therefore a mechanic's default course of repair in my situation to save time in diagnostics and labor. And that there is a cheaper route to getting this motor running healthy with some time invested of my own in tearing down the motor and making the specific diagnosis.

I hope to hear more opinions- please someone put the brakes on for me if they see me wandering down a dreary and and ultimately unsuccessful route if they know what typically goes wrong with this motor and if from the limited evidence provided you can tell me what is the likely (or highly probable) problem.

Tell me more about the OMS fuel/oil pump. Is this a replacement for the VRO or completely different?

Thanks all.

 

[KreatureKris]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

bump- looking for all and any opinions...

 

[d.boat]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

Thanks all for the feedback. I agree- its too much money for a 20 year old motor. I very much want to avoid the labor costs as they make up 20% of the estimate given. I am optimistic by hoping that a powerhead is just the sure fire "fix all" and therefore a mechanic's default course of repair in my situation to save time in diagnostics and labor. And that there is a cheaper route to getting this motor running healthy with some time invested of my own in tearing down the motor and making the specific diagnosis.

I hope to hear more opinions- please someone put the brakes on for me if they see me wandering down a dreary and and ultimately unsuccessful route if they know what typically goes wrong with this motor and if from the limited evidence provided you can tell me what is the likely (or highly probable) problem.

Tell me more about the OMS fuel/oil pump. Is this a replacement for the VRO or completely different?

Thanks all.

Actually, without knowing anything about this particular fix, 20% for labor seems very cheap to me. It seems that most of the repairs I get are 50% or more for labor vs. parts and supplies.

If it were me, I'd be getting a second hands-on opinion.

Finally, the terms VRO and OMS are, for the most part, used interchangably. Read this article, it's interesting: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html. The original oiling fuel pump by OMC (now BRP) was called VRO (variable rate oiling). It went through a few iterations, most recent in the late 80s called VRO 2. The iterations changed oiling ratios and warning signals, but the pump remained essentially the same, just improved (perfected?) and updated with materials, etc.

Then in the early to mid-90s they renamed it to OMS (oil metering system), but the only significant difference was another change in oiling ratio. So, based on the VRO to VRO2 naming precedent, they probably should have called it VRO3. BUt they wanted a new name I guess.

However, most people I know including BRP parts techs and mechanics, still use "VRO" as a generic term whether it's an older, actual, VRO pump, or a current OMS. The bottom line is that if you buy a new pump, it will be a OMS pump, but I'd bet the parts guy and the mechanic you deal with both call it VRO. I've gotten nothing but blank stares from local boat shops when I ask about the OMS.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

This is a open deck block and is prone to excessive wear near last 1/4 of bore. I have only seen 2 or 3 of these still in specs where you could hone and re-ring. Most need at least a ..015 or .020 boring to clean up to spec's. I would look for a later model engine as you can pick up a 1998 and up closed deck finger ported engine for around the 4 grand range. The only reason tech wants to install a new powerhead is warranty purpose I assume.

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

Thanks all for the feedback. I agree- its too much money for a 20 year old motor. I very much want to avoid the labor costs as they make up 20% of the estimate given. I am optimistic by hoping that a powerhead is just the sure fire "fix all" and therefore a mechanic's default course of repair in my situation to save time in diagnostics and labor. And that there is a cheaper route to getting this motor running healthy with some time invested of my own in tearing down the motor and making the specific diagnosis.

I hope to hear more opinions- please someone put the brakes on for me if they see me wandering down a dreary and and ultimately unsuccessful route if they know what typically goes wrong with this motor and if from the limited evidence provided you can tell me what is the likely (or highly probable) problem.

Tell me more about the OMS fuel/oil pump. Is this a replacement for the VRO or completely different?

Thanks all.

Around here (Boston)that new rebuilt motor is $3600 max, installed , test run.
http://www.oconnormarine.com/marine.html

6 cyl American - after 1975...... $2400
(plus parts, tax and machine shop, usually less than an additional $600)

Inclusive
1. evaluation and testing,
2. disassembly,
3. Light cylinder honing,
4. measuring,
5. critical inspection
6. parts acquisitions
7. machining if needed
8. port chamfering
9. cleaning gasket surfaces,
10. pre- assembly cleaning
11. complete re-assembly,
12. integral fuel system component inspection and overhauling
13. test running
14. tuning and adjusting
15. itemized invoice
We also have a Warehouse with remanufactured power heads ready to be shipped call for prices if not listed


Or you can do it yourself , using a marine machine shop to do the boring and fitting of an oversized piston for you, should be less than $600 all up.
Mechanics don't like to warrantee a single cylinder but the factory service book says its ok to just bore one out.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

I myself would not repair it as its a gas pig, better to replace it with a later model engine. I will repair them for customers if they want. Here is a example from craigslist in my area, it is a later model,EFI which will get better fuel mileage and boat will be a little faster due to weight difference:

Mercury 200hp motor for sale - $2750 (Summertown)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: sale-5jzdy-1269215875@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Date: 2009-07-14, 9:18AM CDT



1995 200hp Mercury efi. The motor is in perfect condition. It is equipped with low water pickup.
If you are interested give me a call at (931) 215-9069


Location: Summertown
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests



PostingID: 1269215875

 

[KreatureKris]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

Thanks everyone!

At this point its decided i will get the motor back and tear into it myself and another mechanically savvy person. I will look for any obvious issues and outweigh a potential fix with the cost of a newer motor.

Can anyone tell me what the parts are worth (if in working condition) on the motor if its parted out? Ballpark figures... I know this is a subjective question.

Thanks!

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 1989 GT200 woes...

I buy them all the time(blown) with lower units for $400-$900. Running engines bring around $1200-1800 in this year range. NADA value for running engine is $500-700.



1989 JOHNSON 2-STROKE SERIES J200STLCE

August 06, 2009
Outboard Motors
Model: J200STLCE
Motor Type: Gasoline
Volts (Electric Motors): N/A
Thrust (Electric Motors): N/A
Horsepower: 200

Cylinders: 6
Start Type: Electric
Dry Weight: 450
Power Tilt and Trim: Yes


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