Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

erikgreen

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Well, I don't think there's much help for my grit problem... the fact that it's bits of magnet pretty much kills any idea for removing it except opening it up and cleaning it out. I'm going to call the local repair shop and see how much they'd charge to do that.

If it's too expensive I'll probably start saving up and sell some stuff to afford an SEI drive replacement. I don't want to take more chances on used gear... I came out ok this time, but it's too much work/stress.

Quick note on the magnet thing though:

Cryogenically treating most metals will strengthen them but won't turn any metal into the hardness and toughness of a forged piece. Forging align molecules. Heating and quenching hardens the forging. Tempering lowers the hardness but increases it's toughness.

The whole idea is setting the alignment of the molecules. Magnets rearrange/change them.

The logic is sound, but unfortunately any magnet you could use to pick up the bearings is nowhere near strong enough to rearrange them on a molecular level. About the only possibility to happen is getting some magnet bits on the bearings (as discussed, bad) or accidentally magnetizing the bearings, which could possibly cause problems depending on application.

Think about it... if a handheld magnet could rearrange molecules like that, wouldn't they be used to manufacture bearings, or other steel items somehow? Ever hear of anyone shaping bearings with a magnet, instead of using standard metalworking tools?

Part of the reason bearings are made from steel is that it can be made very hard or resistant to wear and change. It takes a lot of energy to alter a hardened steel bearing even a little.. that's why they're used.

Here's another way to think about this... imagine any application where a magnet is used, like electric brakes on a trailer. Do you think the electromagnet for the brakes is altering the brake drum at all? It's much stronger than a hand held magnet.

Erik
 

bruceb58

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

You mean to say you guys don't remember any Jr high school science classes?
No...none of my jr high courses. My mechanical engineering courses in college particularly my strengths of materials course didn't talk about that either. :)
 

erikgreen

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Well, a bit of hope on the magnet thing anyway.

I called the local shop that I use when I can't do things myself, and they said it would probably only take 1-2 hours of shop time to take the gear case apart, clean out the bits, and put it back together.

I think they're being optimistic because they might run into corrosion or other problems in that gear case, but they charge $100/hour, so even three hours isn't too bad.

More than that and it makes sense to just wait on it. I'm tempted to have them check the upper seals too, but we'll see.

Erik
 

Bondo

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Well, a bit of hope on the magnet thing anyway.

I called the local shop that I use when I can't do things myself, and they said it would probably only take 1-2 hours of shop time to take the gear case apart, clean out the bits, and put it back together.

I think they're being optimistic because they might run into corrosion or other problems in that gear case, but they charge $100/hour, so even three hours isn't too bad.

More than that and it makes sense to just wait on it. I'm tempted to have them check the upper seals too, but we'll see.

Erik

Ayuh,... Sounds like 1/2 the price of a New SEI, ain't it,..??
 

QC

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Or I'd look on Craig's List for some sort of mobile independent guy. There are a ton here that are out of work with the skills to do it right. My nephew is one of them and I'd rather he work on my boat than almost anybody.
 

jtybt

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

One of the things you will have removing the small fragments of magnets is how tenacious they will cling to the gears and bearings.

Also, any steel part touched by a magnet becomes magnetized. Maybe only slightly but think...it will attract every bit of steel grindings within the drive.


Just to tell the story as told to me. My instructor went to a merc training/information class given by Mercruiser to MERC Mechanics. One of the authorized merc mechanic 'students' dropped the lower shaft bearings and swept them up with a magnetic pick-up broom. The Merc instructor promptly told him to throw thew bearings away.

Personally, I don't care if you decide to test you theory and magnetize all your bearings and gears. In fact, be my guest.

It seems some people just don't feel the need to learn anything cuz they know it all.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Also, any steel part touched by a magnet becomes magnetized. Maybe only slightly but think...it will attract every bit of steel grindings within the drive.
Now...that is something that actually may make a little bit of sense. How long it would stay magnetised is another story.
 

IVAZ

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

It seems some people just don't feel the need to learn anything cuz they know it all.

You might be the only person with no mirrors in their house.
 

erikgreen

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Ayuh,... Sounds like 1/2 the price of a New SEI, ain't it,..??

Half the price of a new lower half, yes... but if it takes 3 hours or less I'm ok with that. If they come back saying it'll take more I'll order the SEI... eventually, but too late to do anything more on the water this year.

Basically, I can afford (not really, but well..) $300 at the moment, but not $600 or whatever for a lower, then still have the risk of the upper half going tango uniform. If this drive can't be saved, I'm going to completely replace it.. the rest of the boat is near new at this point anyway, may as well go all the way.

Erik

PS: Try the magnet thing... pick up a ball bearing with a magnet then see if you can pick up even small iron filings with the bearing alone. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Even with the bits of my magnet stuck to the gears for two days the gears won't be magnets enough to attract steel filings.
 

QC

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Hey Erik,

Next time, would you please drop something non-magnetic in there? Thanks. :D :eek:
 

fishrdan

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

One of the more experienced guys will have to chime in here as I don't remember exactly how far I was able to tear apart my #1 drive lower unit.

But, I was able to pull the bearing carrier and gear(s?) out of my #1 drive by removing the big spanner nut and pulling the carrier. For some odd reason I seem to remember both F&R gears coming out with the carrier... I might be talking out my arse as I don't remember if the front gear was still left in the case or if it came out with the carrier??? It was a long time ago and I don't exactly remember what I was able to pull out easily, without having to mess with the bearing clearances. Just thought it was worth mentioning in the event the gears were able to be removed easily, inspected and reinstalled easily. (I didn't mess with the vertical shaft or gear and I put all the shims back into the LU as they were removed).

I'm not 100% sure on this (probably more like 50% or less) so if I'm wrong, go ahead and correct me, just be kind... Something like YOUR WRONG!!! :D

Personally, I'd rather tear it apart myself and fail, then go out and buy a SEI lower. Opposed to dumping $300+ into an older LU that could have other hidden problems, that could add up to as much as an SEI LU.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

We have such intelligent moderators on this board. Your all right in my book...I mean you're all right!
 

QC

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Oh, not commenting at all on the LU plan . . . You may be Awright wit' 'dat!!!
 

fishrdan

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Oh, not commenting at all on the LU plan . . . You may be Awright wit' 'dat!!!

I did indicate in my post that I thought I could quite possibly be wrong and asked for one of the pro's to backup or shoot down my theory...

Guess I should go back and edit my post so the thread isn't littered with bad information...
 

Bondo

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Guess I should go back and edit my post so the thread isn't littered with bad information...

Naw,... QC is bustin' Your chops about the "Your Wrong",.. Vs. "You're Wrong"....

Btw,... You're kinda Right anyways.......;)
 

QC

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Yeah, you were wrong about Your Wrong!!! I am officially stopping :p
 

fishrdan

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Re: Gear hardness and grit in mercruisers

Ohhhhhhhhh,,,,, :redface: (I didn't catch that) My apologies to QC

I guess you're right there Bond-o :D

I took: "Oh, not commenting at all on the LU plan . . . You may be Awright wit' 'dat!!!"
As: my NOT commenting on the LU plan would be a good thing...
Instead of: Oh, I'm not commenting at all on the LU plan . . . You may be Awright wit' 'dat!!!

Thought he was telling me to bug out, when I was really trying to help out

Continue on...................:redface:
 
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