poss bad starter solenoid?

[66 joe]

Ok troubleshooters, new starter fried! Starter worked good for 2 trips, then on the 3rd, went directly to ground on main power lug. That caused + cable to partially melt, fortanetly thats it. Smelled something burning and cut off battery immediately. Cable was new and just replaced and all connections were cleaned and battery was good. The only thing I didnt replace was solenoid. Was wondering if that couldve been original problem that caused my 1st starter to fail? It is 12 years old and the only thing in starting circuit that was not replaced. 96 johnson 112 spl.
Thoughts? thank you,,, Joe

 

[JB]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Try again Joe. You post makes no sense to me.

Are you blaming your prop for a hi current short in the starter??

 

[petryshyn]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

What went directly to ground? Which cables burnt?

 

[66 joe]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Maybe is should proof read my posts - sorry.
I meant orig prob (problem)
Could a bad solenoid have possibly fried new starter and original starter?
New starter power lug is now a direct connect to chassis ground (1ohm).
It caused new battery cable to partially melt. (+)
The old solenoid has no path to ground and seems to be working, but maybe its path to the starter is going open? sorry, just brainstorming

 

[F_R]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Maybe is should proof read my posts - sorry.
I meant orig prob (problem)
Could a bad solenoid have possibly fried new starter and original starter?
New starter power lug is now a direct connect to chassis ground (1ohm).
It caused new battery cable to partially melt. (+)
The old solenoid has no path to ground and seems to be working, but maybe its path to the starter is going open? sorry, just brainstorming

The only possible way the solenoid could have a thing to do with it would be if it stuck in the "on" position and the starter ran constantly. That would eventually burn up the starter. A solenoid is nothing more than a heavy duty switch, either on or off at any given time.

That is a high amp, low resistance circuit through the starter. One ohm or thereabouts on a multimeter sounds about right.

 

[66 joe]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

now you got me thinking,,,
I forgot to metion starter housing getting EXTREMELY hot.
And I mean hot like a clothes iron hot.

 

[McGR]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

I would put an Ohmeter across the solenoid power terminals and see if there is any resistance present (there should be infinate resistance when not powered). It sounds like perhaps the solenoid contacts were possibly stuck on and behaving resistive at the same time. I'm thinking that there was possibly continuous current going through the starter. However, due to the solenoid contact resistance, possibly not enough to turn the armature. Instead of the starter spinning continously the starting power circuit just sat there and "stewed". I've actually never seen this on a boat or automobile solenoid. Though, I have seen this sort of thing happen on large high current contactors (big *** solenoids) when old pitted contact tips weld themselves.

 

[JB]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

An ohmmeter is useless for troubleshooting series wound motors and high current circuits. .001 ohms can ruin a starter circuit.

Go to "Outboard won't start" in the Engine FAQs Forum and do the starter circuit troubleshooting with a voltmeter.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Is the current starter you have actually fried ???

 

[66 joe]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Yes new starter barely turns with power, and draws super amount of current.
I shoulve mentioned all this happened while trying to start the boat in the water on the trailer. gonna trouble shoot it a little more this afternoon, should also be getting replacement starter ans solenoid soon, but just dont want repeat performance thanks for replies, joe

 

[Silvertip]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Was the starter firmly bolted down? If either of those bolts failed to make a good ground connection the starter will get hot. Was this a brand new starter or a brand new "rebuilt"? I've seen rebuilts that were absolute trash. No -- the solenoid did not cause the problem. There was very likely a problem with the "new" starter OR you have an engine or outdrive issue that is attempting to stall the starter and perhaps killed the original as well.

 

[66 joe]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Brand new starter from db electrical. For the price, (75$) I think it is a cheap import model. But they are offering 1 year unconditional guarantee, cant complain. Powerhead was just rebuilt and painted, so I had to sand off paint to get clean metal connection, so I know ground was good. Maybe just bumm starter? I know solenoid should not be source to ground. I wrapped mine with old bike innertube also, so only ground is small gauge wire to lug. Back to the drawing board today, will post with what I find. Thank you

 

[Silvertip]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Remove the plugs and turn the engine by hand. If it turns hard, you found the problem.

 

[66 joe]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

sorry,, forgot to mention, was able to salvage trip by manually starting motor with rope. And as long as I dont turn key to start, no trouble. Move key to start position, and starter spins real weak. and battery + cable gets real hot while attempting to start motor.

 

[McGR]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

An ohmmeter is useless for troubleshooting series wound motors and high current circuits. .001 ohms can ruin a starter circuit.

Go to "Outboard won't start" in the Engine FAQs Forum and do the starter circuit troubleshooting with a voltmeter.

Ohmeters are great for checking solenoids. And how do you start perform a voltage analysis on a defective circuit that is potentially drawing several hundred Amps? Answer: You don't, instead you perform Individual Component Tests to identify the source of the problem before re-powering.

Re-read my post.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Connections sound like they have a serious issue. How deep have you delved into this ??

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

Start from scratch..............

With a known good battery and fully charged, run known good cables directly to starter. Starter shows to be either good or bad by its performance. Replace if needed.

Starter solenoids aren't that expensive..... replace it.

That should be the end of the problem.

 

[66 joe]

Re: poss bad starter solenoid?

well recvd new starter today from db electrical. before i got into it, directly jumpered from good battery to old starter, got buzzing and starter motor and cables became real hot. Installed new starter, turned key, and immediate start of motor with no hesitation.
One thing I didnt mention was the very unique burning smell that came from the old starter. Im returning it to db electrical, but what the hey, lets take off those 2 screws of starter and have a look inside. Didnt look too bad, but smelled horribly burnt! This is all on the old solenoid, that will be replaced when I get my new one. Wont hurt, already ordered.
Love these (salt water) electrical problem in 105 degree heat.
TIME FOR A BEER! thanks everyone! Joe