(image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

[NickyBFWB]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Yeah I am figuring I should be able to piece together and engine no problem. I am not familiar with the 307 but someone suggested it might be a 350 block with something else done to it.

And seeing as the mounts are still there I shouldn't have to replace them for a 350 unless they are rotted out. Will be checking that out tomorrow.

I am going to start putting together a list of what stuff is going to cost me. Starting with pricing out new engines. I will also need to figure out what I need for glass/resin and all the other goodies.

Tomorrow I scored the day off (instead of giving me a raise they gave me two days off this year extra) so I get to go out and play with my boat while the kid is at the babysitters. Its awesomeness.

 

[vegasphotoman]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

I concur on the long block idea from SHizzy and Bill....wouldn't you feel real good being 40 miles offshore...catching sailfish with 2 NEW engines? I would....especially since you have a wife and maybye kids....you want reliable 1rst...

good for you sticking to your guns....a bayliner cuddy sounds kinda dull compared to this project.....besides...this is ALL YOURS and not someone elses start to resto.....

Should be an awsome cruiser when your done......

How'd ya get the engine out in the parking lot? sounds like a pain ...no air tools...hafta bring everything to the storage yard....post some pics of that engine comin out!!

20k? Sounds kinda high...man...might as well buy a new boat and make payments at that price!!

Hey Nicky....Check this one out..I wouldnt mind buying this one.....44' SONIC offshore racer.(french design) and one this sized NEW is $375,000!!!!
..decent interior...bit outdated....12k Las Vegas craigslist http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/1400934993.html
needs only one engine worked on and some gelcoat repair....
go fishing in STYLE!!!!!!!!! lol


$3000 2 new 350 chevy engines and extra parts..waterpumps etc
boat FREE
10 gallons fiberglass resin $375
misc fiberglass supplies and cloth $100
outdrive maintenance...2 impellers...seal kits and lubricants $200
Interior - self re upholster $7 per yard vinyl...10 yards = $70
some new foam $100
paints for trailer and boat misc $150
trailer lighting / new winch / new rollers $230
2 new bilge blowers $60
2 new bilge pumps $50
15 feet of new bilge blower tubing $10
misc bolts and screws $50
some new stainless hardware $100
plexiglass or lexan for any broken windows $50
4 new trailer tires $320
new axle and hubs $150
new brake pads if has brakes $40
gel coat per gallon online $47 ea gal x 3 = $150
2 gallons of acetone $40
sandpaper / grinding wheels / rags $40
===========================
about 5k grand so far....
==============
All new gauges $330 total
white face or black (thats double eng guages and single speedo...2 alternator charge guages $44 / 2 oil $44 / 2 eng temp $44 / 2 trim $44 / 2 rpm $120 / 1 Speedo $50
new marine carpet for cuddy area $80
===============
new steering wheel $50 or a fancy wood one for $150
WOOD total $180 see below
new wood for stringers (4) 2"x12"x16' $20/ transom (3) 4x8 3/4" ply $60 / misc 2x4 and 2x6" wood $20 / (4) sheets 3/4" decking $80
you dont need to use "marine" at 80 bucks a sheet...you can spiff for smoother CDX wood though...but not neccessary..once fiberglass is on it will be watertight...rougher wood grips the resin better in my opinion anyways...
===========================
$5000
+$630
======$5630======= rough estimate add 20% for reality check and this could be a close estimate
6k to 8K my guess when you're done

hope you dont mind me adding this breakdown in there...sounded like you might have been trying to crush the build with COST OVERRUNS! lol

 

[Shizzy]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

anytime you start doing machine work on an engine the price can add up quick. I agree on the $3000 including extras for two NEW engines sounds rather nice.

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

CME has undressed (your manifold,oil pan water pump etc) long block 350's starting at about 1300.00
http://www.cmengines.com/se/marine.aspx

 

[danhend]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Way to hang in there with your boat. Way cooler than a Bayliner (I have one so I know ) New engines definitely the way to go...will be much cheaper in the long run with maintenance etc., plus that warm fuzzy feeling you'll have instead of a gnawing doubt Looking forward to this restore, and would love to hear the story of pulling that engine. Must have been fun!

 

[NickyBFWB]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

For the engine romo al well I don't have any pictures of that and I will write the story in a bit but let's just say a monkey and a football would have been an improvement that and I just removed the transmission from the boat by myself. Feel pretty dumb on that one.

I like thos figures for numbers for investment into the boat and drilling into the stringers is showig me clean dry wood. In addition taking apart the engine that was in it one piston is all rusted but the rest are great and so are the heads from what I can tell. It looms like he was in the process of putting these engines in.

I will be having a couple qualified mechanics look them over and give metheir opinion and might save myself a couple grand still. In addition I did measure the boat and I got that it is 26' though I can find the hull ID anywhere which is annoying the hell out of me.

Alright back to taking the boat apart. I am getting more and more excited as this day goes on. I know there is going to be lot of replacement work but that won't scare me off.

Also appreciate the complements on sticking with the Courtesan. I think she will be a fair lady on the Gulf.

Oh and Vegas want something with style http://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/1401139796.html that is a ship with some class.

Posted from my iPhone

 

[TojosMojo]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

I think if you budget your money wisely you should be able to pull off this restore at less than half your 20k projection unless you are going to go new on everything you put in her... I would also consider replacing the engines verses trying to revive them as they may be the money pits of your rebuild.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

I would also consider replacing the engines verses trying to revive them as they may be the money pits of your rebuild.

I agree with that. In the big picture and with your budget, I might be inclined to go with new crate engines. If money is a concern, I bet you could pick up a pair of rebuildable core 350's at a wrecking yard (think Cash for Clunkers) and rebuild both of them for the same money you would put into the 307's. Rebuilding would cost about 1/2 of new engines, if you did the rebuilding yourself, and you would have more power than those 40 year old 307's.

I think you are going to spend a healthy chunk of cash on the mechanical portion of this rebuild as I would suspect everything hanging off the engines to be bad.

Engines $1500-3000
Manifolds/risers $700-1000+ (you going to use questionable parts that could kill those new engines?)
ignitions $500-700 (those old HEI's are not Marine certified)
Water pumps $300-400
Alternators $200-300
Fuel pumps $150-250
Starters $200-300
Carbs $100-700 (rebuilt/new)
Hoses, belts, misc, $500-1000
Flywheels? (not sure if they are compatible between the 307/350, internal/external balanced)
Etc...
Etc...

So $4000 to 8000 on the engines depending on how much is rebuilt or purchased new?

 

[NickyBFWB]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Getting the engine out,

So I lure a few friends out to help me pull out one of the engines on Wednesday. Its getting late so we are trying to hurry. Well nice enough of the previous owner but the rack he has installed works perfectly for putting the engine in or pulling it out. I think strongly that he was installing the engines when he stopped working on them.

So we hook up a winch to the frame and we hoist the engine up. From there we grab a tie strap and two of us start lugging this engine while the other two slowly lower the engine. We use a door to try and protect the side of the boat. Still having the heads and distributor cap on this is a beast and we are trying to pull it away from the boat. As we get it to almost the height of the back of my truck I back my truck in. Still heaving and shoving we almost drop the engine on my tailgate.

After a lot of struggling and yanking and pulling we got the engine sat down in the bed of my truck.

Typing it up it doesn't sound as challenging as it was. /me shrugs Ya'll know how much an engine weighs.

Oh and pics of the engine coming gotta go snap a couple.

 

[NickyBFWB]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Pictures of the engine...

Here is the worst part...

same one just another picture...

then there is the rest

the block..

and if you got to NickyB's Picasa this is a video of the heads, transmission, oil pan, and block. Also there is more pictures of all going on.

Vegas no picking on bad camera angles, shots, etc

 

[fishseeker]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Something bad was going on in that motor! That one piston has had the crap beat out of the top of it(not the rusted 1, but it looks beat on too!) Nut down intake,bent valve,something inside that wasn't right!!

 

[HVAC Cruiser]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Something bad was going on in that motor! That one piston has had the crap beat out of the top of it(not the rusted 1, but it looks beat on too!) Nut down intake,bent valve,something inside that wasn't right!!

I concur looks like a valve smacked the piston, bent, floated whatever. if you look at the cyl head I'll bet there is one not fully seated.

I stand by what I said before, CRATE MOTOR, CRATE MOTOR, CRATE MOTOR
you will be much happier in the long run.
even if you spend 5 or 6 grand a piece at Jegs for a fully dressed engine, the grief it will save you in the long run is priceless trust me I have been down this road and bandaids just dont work

 

[evildocrsx]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

good thing the tear down is always free. Minus man hours.

 

[Utahboatnut]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

What type of cruising are you planing on doing in this boat? Is there any way you couyld get away with a single 454 or 502? might not even be possible but if it was it is certianly something I would look into. You are going to be doing alot of work in the bilge anyway. How to the drives/trannys look? if those are 307's they are going to be a maint/parts nightmare. The one pictured has had a tough life already some little gremlin was doing a dance in there and beat the crap out of the tops of at least two pistons and who knows what else. Good luck this has been a great post so far, thats a neat old boat.

 

[NickyBFWB]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Utah looking at the price of a 502 off of GearHead Engines.com I think it would be cheaper to buy two 350's and put both of those in versus trying to put a 502 in and either converting from dual props to single prop or putting in a system to split to the two props. I also think I would lose some capacity for steering as how it is setup now each engine has its own controls.

For now I undecided on what I am going to do. I may save my pennies and get 350s sooner rather than later but first I will see to fixing up the rest of the boat. Mostly making repairs to the hull and cap as well as measuring and stripping out the interior.

I might replace the stringers just because I will be down that far anyways but I will wait and see till that time is at hand.

I also and going to look how I want to redesign the interior or even if I do want to change the look other than updating and modernizing.

Thanks for all the comments and encouragement. I am excited to get this chance to work on the boat and I can't wait to get her fixed up.

Nick

 

[NickyBFWB]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Alright so I have working with TJ at Penn Yan Boats.com figured out that it is a Penn Yan Vindicator VSM. He also has most all the original documentation for the boat including maintenance / blueprint schematics. So my question is will this be worth the investment to pick the various documentation up for the boat?

Here is what he is offering

Do not have a parts catalog yet, however I have access to many items you may need so just ask. We have engine hatches, windscreens, running gear, drip less stuffing boxes....just about everything in stock.

We have developed a line of propellers specifically for the tunnel drive boats. They offer increased mid range performance, reduced fuel usage and a much smoother quieter ride. Contact me if you want to discuss them.

There is some printed information that may be useful. Original owners manuals are available for $15.00 each. Reprints of original sales literature for your model Penn Yan are $36.00. They will give you basic specs as well as pics of what the boat looked like new . Copies of original price lists are $10.00. Dealers' manuals which include schematics, diagrams and repair information are $95.00 and include a genuine Penn Yan Binder. Engine repair manuals are usually $95 depending on engine model. We also have some original Chrysler media packets that were delivered with every Chrysler equipped Penn Yan for $35.00. Reprints of magazine articles on Penn Yan, as well as the tunnel drive are $22.00 a set.

 

[vegasphotoman]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Oh and Vegas want something with style http://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/1401139796.html that is a ship with some class.

Nicky....
Dang they pulled the CL post and I missed it! DARN it! what was that listing for? (what kinda boat)

and Hey I wouldnt pick on anyone for thier photos...heck....Ill pick on just about anything else first...pics last...thtas what I do for a living so I certainly dont pick on anyone for thier pics....lol that would be mean!

Oh yeah add in all that stuff the one guy was listing (alternators and such)
Im not sure ignition would be as pricey as $700 though....although you do have double everything....

and yeah something beat around in that engine and it also looks like no one has resotred that motor...has too much carbon all over, cylinder wall top area has buildup....rust probably pitted the cylinders...would be best to replace or bore out engines....

 

[NickyBFWB]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Oh and Vegas want something with style http://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/1401139796.html that is a ship with some class.

Nicky....
Dang they pulled the CL post and I missed it! DARN it! what was that listing for? (what kinda boat)

and Hey I wouldnt pick on anyone for thier photos...heck....Ill pick on just about anything else first...pics last...thtas what I do for a living so I certainly dont pick on anyone for thier pics....lol that would be mean!

Oh yeah add in all that stuff the one guy was listing (alternators and such)
Im not sure ignition would be as pricey as $700 though....although you do have double everything....

and yeah something beat around in that engine and it also looks like no one has resotred that motor...has too much carbon all over, cylinder wall top area has buildup....rust probably pitted the cylinders...would be best to replace or bore out engines....

http://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/1407930014.html
There she is again, but incase you don't get to see her she is a 51' Biloxi Lugger.

As for the engines talking with TJ he said the 307's were an option that year. So either he got it with the engines or he got new ones later on. They are in need of love but I don't think it is anything that a cleaning/dipping and a rebuild kit can't fix and looking at the cost of that it comes out to about the prices of one crate engine. Roughly 1300 - 1500 bucks so I think it will be worth it to rebuild them.

 

[4runneradam]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Thats a LOT of work man!

Chevy small block stuff is cheap. As long as the cylinders arent too badly beat up, then you could send the blocks and heads off to a machine shop to have them resurfaced and bored out, new valves for the heads, and a rebuild kit with new pistons. Will be as good as new.

Just make sure the 2 blocks and heads are the same. I think you'd want equal power from both engines. 350 blocks and heads are dirt cheap if you have to replace them. Marine accesories are the parts that will get expensive.

Take your time and paint them engines to make them look good. Get maching valve covers too.

 

[vegasphotoman]

Re: (image heavy) 1972 Penn Yan Tunnel Restoration - Fort Walton Beach, Florida

Awsome boat nicky!
man thats a beauty! wow...is it a shrimpin boat? kinda looks like on converted over...

thanks for posting those pics!

it's cool that you are up to overhauling the engines, fun stuff if you have the proper tools.... Obviously you have alot of mechanical experience to be taking all this on....way cool

Im not sure what the difference is between the 307s and the 350s...might be the crankshaft has a shorter throw or maybye a slighty bigger bore....etc...does anyone here know?

the old valves could be ground, I used to regrind em all the time when I was a mechanic at a Ford Dealership...loved doing valve jobs....

check your valve seats for cracks before ya send em out for work...if theyre cracked...replace the seat or replace the head....
also see how big the ridge on the cylinder are when the heads are off, may need ridge removal and or boring out meaning oversized pistons...a small ridge can be reamed and the cylinders deglazed using a 3 stone honer deglazer

Post some more pics!