Reed Blocks

[rnygaard]

Hello I am trying to fix an 1150 mercury. It would not rev up when in the water and gas was spitting out of the carbs. I think it was the reeds they were wore out. I replaced the reeds, but what worries me is the reed block. The ridges in the block look good but the block fits fairly loose on the crank and you want a good seal between the reed block and the crank. Just wondering what the clearance should be or if it is suppose to fit a little loose

 

[Jeff_G]

Re: Reed Blocks

The reed block should not be loose, but then neither should it be tight. To tell if a reed cage is worn out look at the ridges with the blocks taken apart. If there is very minimal "mushrooming" or none the block is OK, if the "mushrooming" of the raised ridges is pronounced replace the reed block they act as a bearing for the crank as well.

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

In my manual they show a picture of the worn ridges mine do not look loike that though the picture is in black and white so it is hard to tell. But when you run a small screw driver down the ridge on the inside of the reed block you can feel the ridges have mushroomed a tiny bit but the ridges are still fairly high therefore the grooves are still deep. It is loose but oil needs to gather in their to make a seal, also the holes do not seem to be out of round so i think i am ok. I probably going to put it back together and try and run it, due to the fact a reed block is about $250 a peice! Also I might try and run the oil mixture a little high like 20:1

 

[Fuzzytbay]

Re: Reed Blocks

I'm not sure the reed/reedblocks are at fault.....incorrectly set up carbs, could do the exact same symptoms. Did you rebuild the carbs, and do a link n sync before you did the tear down?

 

[Laddies]

Re: Reed Blocks

Mercury don't even give specs on the labyrinth seals so if there is not mushrooming on them they should be OK. While it's apart I would check the check valves and restricters for the bleed system thats a more probable cause for not idling if the carbs are set right. It's very easy to talk about problems for some but really quite hard to get the right answer if you don't even give a approximate year or serial number on a engine with several different configurations that was built from 1970 till 1988.

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

Yes the carbs were rebuilt. What happened is a friend of mine bought it in B.C and brought it home. The guy he bought it off of said it wouldn't pull a load, he took it to a boat mechanic in calgary they said they did all this ****, rebuilt the carbs and diaphrams for the fuel pumps. he took it out it wouldn't pull a load. Then he got a boat mech out of drum our home town to look at it. He said half of what they said they did they didnt do, so he got carb rebuild kits and put them in. Then it started ok and rev up out of the water (with muffs on of course). But when i got it i took it out and it won't pull a load in the water. ALSO WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY LINK AND SINK, AND WHAT CAN YOU REALLY SET ON THE CARBS BESIDES A FLOAT LEVEL AND RICH/LEAN IDLE SCREW. WHY WOULD THE CARBS SPIT FUEL OUT THE INTAKE THAT WHY I THOUGHT REEDS.But when i took the engine apart the reeds weren't broken, but they were standing open slightly, and the torque on the reed stop nuts seem high(which wouldnt make sense why they are statnding open). Also what is the bleed system, and were are these check valves. Their was a rubber line off the top of the cylinder buy the spark plugs im assuming that is a vent line it had **** in it and it was plugged. Not sure if that is part off the bleed system. Dont know muchabout boats kinda learning as i go all the HELP is much APPRECIATED!

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

The year on the engine is 1973 i believe.

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

The engine is 115 H.P in line 6 tower of power!

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Reed Blocks

That motor will have a 3/32" rubber tube running from the very bottom of the block (starboard side) to the very top of the block. The hose fits on a hose barb on a check valve that is threaded into the block. Remove the check valve and make sure it is clean and has one way action. The oil that collects in the lower part of the crankcase is pumped to the top bearing. The check valve and hose should alow that.

The hose on the cylinder head is the telltale water outlet. It confirms that the motor is cooling.

Reed blocks and valves are really tough to break or wear out. Your's are likely fine.

Link and synch refers to setting idle and max ign timing, carb opening stops and idle speed. Idle pickup timing is setting the carbs to open at the right timing. On your motor idle pickup timing is 4-6* BTDC, max timing is 21* BTDC. Look at the sticky on this forum, for the procedure. The set screws above the distributor are where the settings are made, except the idle pickup timing is on the brass collar that fits around the midsection of the distributor and touches the carb lever.

 

[Laddies]

Re: Reed Blocks

The reason I was trying to find the year or serial number the 115's with high dome cross flow pistions 1973 and newer I believe, are prone to cyl wall wear and will act just as you describe. If the crank case looks like it's been apart and someone tried to slip just rings in it you will find that to be the problem even though the compression shows good with a gauge,

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

Ok i will check all of that, i still need to get the engine back together and then i will link and sync it should have details in my manual as well. I read on a forum that these engines are notorious for reed problems. Its sounds like i took the engine apart for nothing, but i am going to re-ring it while it is apart. Thanks for all your help i am sure i will have more questions!

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

It doesn't seem like someone was in their, like you say the compression is good i hope that isn't the problem. Maybe i should check the clrearance with a feeler guage on the top of the piston and top of the clylinder. Shouldn't be more than 5-7 thousands of an inch hey?

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

What do you mean look at the sticky I never used this site before

 

[Fuzzytbay]

Re: Reed Blocks

What do you mean look at the sticky I never used this site before

Its not really a sticky in the thread, its in the FAQ's (frequently asked question),
here is the link to the "link n sync"
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=168855
I agree with Chris on the reeds, unless something "came lose" they generally never really wear out enough, in fishing motors to warrent replacement. Thats why I mentioned carbs, or as Laddies pointed another problem that can cause your motors sympton.

 

[Fuzzytbay]

Re: Reed Blocks

he got carb rebuild kits and put them in. Then it started ok and rev up out of the water (with muffs on of course). But when i got it i took it out and it won't pull a load in the water. ALSO WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY LINK AND SINK, AND WHAT CAN YOU REALLY SET ON THE CARBS BESIDES A FLOAT LEVEL AND RICH/LEAN IDLE SCREW. WHY WOULD THE CARBS SPIT FUEL OUT THE INTAKE THAT WHY I THOUGHT REEDS.

You cannot tune these motors on muffs, they need to have the carbs set, under load. You can get them close on muffs, but they need a richer mixture to get a good hole shot. So once they are set on muffs, bring them to a lake, and do as the link n sync post say's.

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

Still why was gas spitting out the carbs, and somtimes flowing out. it is like the reeds aren't holding

 

[Fuzzytbay]

Re: Reed Blocks

Fuel can 'spill from the carb throats, if the floats are missadjusted. If the fuel pressure is to great, (IE from a fuel tank, with its vent left closed, exposed to the sun on a hot day, this will cause fuel to also spill from the carbs, due to the pressure) from pumping the ball to hard. These motors also need a lot of fuel to start. You almost need to flood em to get them running. So its not uncommon when cold to find fuel running out of the carbs. Once warm they start fine. The reeds, do not stop fuel, they are a one way gate, for the fuel/air mixture. IF the reeds are bad, and the one way gate is not working, then there is a back pressure that would exhaust out the carb throats, and yes this would appear to be spitting fuel. Yet if the reeds were this bad, I doubt the engine would idle at all. As for inline 6's being hard on reeds, thats news to me. Leaning out and burning pistons, yep, reeds.......that I am not sure of.

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

ok thanks for youur help

 

[Jeff_G]

Re: Reed Blocks

The pistons are a direct charge not a crossflow design.
The low dome pistons didn't make their arrival until about 1978. Even then they used the same rings as the high dome. I have never heard or seen a cylinder being worn due to the use of a high dome over a low dome. In fact the rings of both are in the same position on the piston, the only difference being the "eyebrow" being .100 higher.
Some slight spitting is normal at all speeds on these engines.
The biggest problem with most inlines is the idle mixture. Just when it is set for the smoothest, lowest RPM, it wouldn't get on plane, they like a richer mixture. I start with an initial setting of 2 turns out from lightly seated on all three, basically the same as Chris1956 recommends.
You also need to check very carefully for any signs of water on the plugs.
While you have the engine apart definitely replace the upper and lower seals. Note the bottom seals both go in lip facing down.
As long as the reeds are open less than .020 you will be OK, however no opening at rest would be better.
Unless you have access to the proper ring compressors I wouldn't pull the crank and pistons, they go in as a unit.

 

[rnygaard]

Re: Reed Blocks

THanks for your input, I did pull the crank out and i didnt have ring compressors, i got it back in with feeler guages and my fingers it was a tough battle but i won, no rings broke, man did i do a song and dance after that one. sounds like the carbs need to be set and i took the thing apart for nothing but i leanred alot about boats. Also someone metioned about the oil line that feeds oil back to the top of the engine. The check valve in the bottom was not holding i could blow back into it, that also is maybe why it was spitting not enough oil getting in the grooves on the reed blocks therefore no seal.