Hard to start after carb rebuild

Bitmess

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Mar 19, 2009
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63
1977 9.9 HP M10R77A
Before the carb rebuild, the motor would crank easily and I never used the choke. It had lack of wot power and would not idle well, so I rebuilt the carb.

After the carb rebuild it idles great and sounds more powerful but it is difficult to crank. At first I have to crank it about 5 times and I have to choke it. If I crank it immediately after shutting it down it cranks right up but if I wait 3 or 4 minutes it's hard to crank again.

When I was putting the carb back together I had this part #20 - 0314166
BEARING,Needle valve. It didn't appear that the carb had this part in it when I disassembled. If it is in there I can't see it and I am afraid to put the new one in because it's a tight fit and I don't think I will be able to get it out if there is already one in there.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.
 

bktheking

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

You should have to choke it, mine at cold won't start without choke, it draws additional fuel in. Hard to crank as in it's hard to pull start, or does it feel normal and it just won't fire. Is this a physical thing, does it feel like it's binding?
 

bktheking

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

Ya when I rebuilt mine I didn't bother with the #20, it's the seat for the idle needle. I didn't replace it and my motor idles perfectly, as does your according to your post. Mine is now on the garage floor somewhere, didn't use it. :)
 

jbjennings

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

Sounds to me like it's flooding a little after sitting because of an incorrectly adjusted float or needle valve not fully seating because of a TINY piece of grit. Also, check to see your choke lever is COMPLETELY closing the butterfly. If it's just a little bit open on choke, it's not right and it won't crank very well cold.
You've almost got it,
JBJ:)
 

Bitmess

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

It's just not firing. It's not any harder to pull the rope.
Did the factory not use #20? Where did it go? :)
 

Bitmess

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

JBJ,
I have actually had this thing apart three times. I'm getting pretty good at removing and installing the pull rope rewinder. I did re-check the float valve and seat. I blew it out with compressed air each time. It's possible that I got one of my beard hairs got trapped it there. :) Do you think I should cheat a little on my float level to let a little more fuel into the bowl? Am I being too picky? I just don't want to get stranded out on the lake.

Thanks
 

jbjennings

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

I believe your part #20 is probably still in there or it wouldn't idle right. I don't understand the first statement. Try pumping the primer bulb and seeing if it gets firm because the needle valve is closing, closing the fuel flow off. If not, it's leaking and needs to be fixed.
Later,
JBJ
 

bktheking

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

Sounds like JB said, the float is out of adjustment. 20 went in the where the idle adjustment needle seats, you can't see it, I imagine it needs some sort of thin pick to get in and pull it out. Is the float parallel to the carb body when you put it back together? Spark good from the plugs when it does this? Coils in good shape as well?
 

Bitmess

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

The best I can tell the float is sitting parallel when the carb is inverted. My eyes aren't the best but I'll double check the float and needle.
I got the spark fixed up previously. I had a bad power pack and bad connection to the coils. This is going to be a brand new motor by the time i finish.
Thanks
 

bktheking

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

With it inverted suck on the fuel inlet and see it it seals.
 

jbjennings

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

Alrighty then,
I just read your last post. A few tests are in order. :D As for the hard starting, see if you can mix up a squirt bottle of fuel/oil premix and while it's cold, see if squirting a little fuel in the carb throat will make it immediately fire. If it will, your choke is probably not closing off good or the fuel level in the bowl is low. If squirting a little premix in makes it harder to start and you have to pull it over a few times before it will blow the fuel out of the cylinders and finally crank, you've got too much fuel in there from a flooding problem which is probably due to a non-seating float needle or incorrectly adjusted float.
Hope this helps---I know how frustrating it can be to keep having to keep removing a carb!:redface:
JBJ
 

Bitmess

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

bktheking,
I don't know if your pulling my leg but yeah it seals. Don't taste good too.
 

Bitmess

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

Okay, I'm having trouble. I think I melted the the inside of my squirt bottle pump with the premix. I got 3 pumps out of it before it stopped working.
(I wonder if she will notice that her Windex is missing?).

What kind of squirt bottle can resist gasoline?

Thanks guys, I'm learning a lot about troubleshooting!
 

bktheking

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

bktheking,
I don't know if your pulling my leg but yeah it seals. Don't taste good too.

Nope not pulling your leg LOL

This is a test i do with every kit i put in, snowblower, outboard, anything with a needle and seat. Don't do it with gas in the carb hehehe, it will tell you if it seals or not.
 

Bitmess

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

bktheking,
The hard part was holding the motor upside down while I sucked on the fuel line. :)
Just kidding. LOL
 

bktheking

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

I just rebuilt the carb on my 9.9 that was sunk, it was nasty rusted. I put a kit in it and it starts every time. From cold 2 pulls with choke, warm it's one pull, every time. What is compression of the 2 cylinders on this bad boy? How did you clean the carb and what condition was it in?
 

bktheking

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

bktheking,
The hard part was holding the motor upside down while I sucked on the fuel line. :)
Just kidding. LOL

You must be a strong lad, 80 lbs over your head LOL
I have a hard enough time lifting mine onto my test barrel.
 

Bitmess

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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

bktheking,
(Sorry about the long post):redface:
I want mine to crank as easily as yours does. Should I ask how your motor got sunk?
You're making me think I need to take the carb back off and redo it again. :) My new hobby is working on my outboard.

It wouldn't idle at all and it lacked wot power. I might be expecting too much from this motor. It's on a 12' flat bottom jon boat. I've tried trimming the motor and the anti-ventilation plate is pretty much even with the bottom of the boat. It's about 1" high. I don't want to cut the transom down since it rides pretty low in the stern already. I weigh #250 and usually bring one of my boys with me. Each weigh about #180. I bring tackle, one ice chest a trolling motor with battery(battery up front). I put everything I can up towards the front. We almost get on plane.

I bought a carb kit online. I disassembled the carb and soaked it in carb cleaner for about 8 hours. I removed both core plugs and the main jet also. The carb was pretty clean looking but the choke handle was on upside down so it raised my suspicion. I also noticed that it looked like someone tried to remove the brass pipe under the main jet. It was a little buggered up. Like a screwdriver had slipped in there. I thought I could try to remove the buggers from it but they weren't very bad and i was worried I might damage the threads that the main jet screws into. I left it alone.
When i removed the larger core plug I couldn't see through 2 of the microscopic holes under there.
Anyway, I couldn't find the kind of carb cleaner that you soak carbs in, so I emptied the spray kind into a stainless steel bucket and used it to soak.
After 8 hours of soaking I blew everything out with compressed air. i made sure I could see through those tiny holes. I spent 10 minutes trying to get the float exactly parallel. The wire on the needle valve was causing my blood pressure to go up a little. Also, the pin that holds the float in place was too long so I used the old one. I reinstalled the carb and tested it out. At first it spit and backfired. Maybe because I forgot to open the fuel vent on the fuel tank? It's not the first time I've done that.
I finally got it cranked up and it idles nice. It was just difficult to crank after setting for a few minutes. I removed the carb and adjusted the float so more fuel would go into the bowl. This seemed to help with the cold cranking but then i noticed fuel dripping. I removed the carb again and set the float back to parallel.

Before I cleaned the carb it cranked in maybe 3 pulls when totally cold and I didn't need to choke it at all. It would crank on the first pull for the rest of the day.
Now, after warming up it will crank on half a pull but after 3 to 5 minutes it acts like it's cold and takes several pulls to crank and wants to be choked.

I'm going to run the rest of the test you all suggested tomorrow. I need to find a squirt bottle that will pump gasoline. Windex bottles don't work so good.

Compression is 100 on both cylinders.

What I've done so far in the two months that I have owned it
Replaced the spark plugs
Replaced a bad power pack with a used one.
Tested the coils thoroughly
Replaced the water pump .
Rebuilt the tiller handle with plactic washers cut out of scrap.
Found a bad connection in the used powerpack plug, so I snipped it off and used bullet connectors instead.
Rebuilt the carb
 

bhughes

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Apr 28, 2009
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Re: Hard to start after carb rebuild

If you've got the idle adjustments right and it idles good and runs at WOT good, I don't see anything wrong with having to put the choke on to restart it after 5 minutes of sitting. Just my opinion.
 
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