Towing with F-Body

[Mark42]

Getting stuck between a rock and hard space. We have an AWD Toyota Sienna that tows our boats great. Also used to tow with a late model Town Car, but sold it recently. That means I only have the Toyota to tow the boats with.

I replaced the Town Car with a 98 Pontiac Firebird. The advertised tow capacity is 1000 lbs, but the Firebird owners manual states 1700 lbs. The heaver of my two boats is about 1400 lbs boat, motor and trailer.

There is going to be a few times a year when I can't use the Toyota to tow, and need to use another vehicle. That leaves the Firebird. Thinking of adding a class I hitch, trans cooler and Torsen all gear LSD. Plan on adding the Torsen for winter driving anyway, and while the differential being changed, a set of 3.73 gears will go in too (currently has 3.08). Should make it easier on towing, and give the car the zoom I'm looking for.

Towing with the Firebird is not my preference, but seeing as the load will be within its capabilities, I might as well take advantage of it.

Just wondering what other changes should be made to make things easier on the car (in addition to the trans cooler, Torsen, and rear gears).

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Towing with F-Body

With the changes you say you'll make the F-Bird should do nicely with no additional changes. Gear ratio change will help tremendously. Perhaps air shocks on the rear will help with any tongue weight issues (rear end sag) and the differential changes will help on slippery ramps. The speedo will need recalibration due to the axle ratio change.

 

[HappierWet]

Re: Towing with F-Body

I'd go with stiffer shocks. Maybe rancho's and a rear sway bar. My opinion is to stay away from air shocks. Had a problem on an '80 bird with airshocks and the rear columns and back window. Also was a lot of play up and down with the hitch. I had to fab a brace that came up under the fuel tank and attach to the frame between the tank and axle. Also it plowed in turns real bad when the roads were wet.

Good Luck.

HW

 

[indy440]

Re: Towing with F-Body

well... most people here will tell you that you need a F350 diesel with duallys, minimum to tow a monster boat like that (this is not a crack against your boat)


The firebird will be fine, that class one hitch will also be fine.

But im nearly certain others that chime in will not agree, many people like super-duper overkill on everything that has anything to do with towing... <end rant>

 

[slia67]

Re: Towing with F-Body

Make sure when you do tow with it that you kkep it out of overdrive.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Towing with F-Body

If you have an issue with the tongue weight causing spring sag you could use Air Lift or Firestone air bags in the rear coils....they are a pretty easy install and do not have the problems of air shocks (shock mounts are not meant to carry weight). I have a set of them on my 98 Grand Cherokee and they work great...

If you need new shocks I think the best shock out there for the money is the Bilstein monotube high pressure gas shock....you put these on and that's it...their quality is so good it's as close to a lifetime shock as you can get and the ride quality and handling will up date that F-body nicely...

Brakes...I have used Wagner brake rotors with good success on my older Grand Cherokee...they lasted much longer than the OE ones ever did...
The other thing you might consider is synthetic gear oil in the rear diff after the new gears break in....the differential on the F-Body was a pretty light duty 7.5 in ring gear unit like the Dana 35 in my Jeep if I remember right...

and if you are going to drive it in the snow...maybe a set of these....

 

[Mark42]

Re: Towing with F-Body

Yeah, the carrier in the rear is the 7.5" unit. The nice thing about the Torsen limited slip differential is there are no clutches to wear, and it will last the life of the car under normal use.

I also like the coil spring air bags, everything I read says they are a great upgrade. When not needed, dropping the pressure to about 5 psi keeps them in place and adds nothing to the spring rate.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Towing with F-Body

Sounds good....I was going to add a True Trac differential to the rear of my 98 Grand Cherokee but then came across a nice clean 07 Grand Cherokee Limited that has three things I wanted...5.7 Hemi...Quadradrive II (full time 2 speed transfer case and electronic limited slip differentails front and rear)...and the tow package....so now my old FW will get towed by 330 hp...and my faithful 98 Grand will soldier on for camping trips and driving on the beaches of LI.....

 

[Mark42]

Re: Towing with F-Body

Sounds good........so now my old FW will get towed by 330 hp...and my faithful 98 Grand will soldier on for camping trips and driving on the beaches of LI.....

Yeah! Nothing like cruising down the beach to a secluded area to hang out.

I recently had a beach front owner call the police on me for driving the Toyota Sienna AWD down the beach. I was below the high tide mark. Police came and we had a nice discussion, but the home owner was yelling and adamant that I can't drive on the beach. She said "he is ruining the beach with tire tracks". The cop looked down at the tire track, smoothing the sand with his foot and said "I don't see any tire tracks. You need to calm down and go home...." . At that point, she saw it was a losing battle and stormed off.

Gotta be careful out on LI, a lot of rich nut cases live out there.

 

[rbh]

Re: Towing with F-Body

well... most people here will tell you that you need a F350 diesel with duallys, minimum to tow a monster boat like that (this is not a crack against your boat)


The firebird will be fine, that class one hitch will also be fine.

But im nearly certain others that chime in will not agree, many people like super-duper overkill on everything that has anything to do with towing... <end rant>

Chiming in
it doesnt matter what you pull it with as long as its safe and legal
rob

 

[indy440]

Re: Towing with F-Body

it doesnt matter what you pull it with as long as its safe and legal
rob

i couldn't agree more...

 

[z284u2try]

Re: Towing with F-Body

Is this a ls1 fbody? If so you will not have any problems.
I have towed single and double jetskis behind a 99 ls1 6 speed.
I still have the reese hitch if interested.
If it is a ls1 you are good to go unless you get on a slick steep ramp.

 

[nitsuj]

Re: Towing with F-Body

Are you sure the heaviest of the 2 boats is 1400? Seems like a 16' cuddy, with hard top, on a trailer, would weigh more than that.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Towing with F-Body

trailer brakes.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Towing with F-Body

Are you sure the heaviest of the 2 boats is 1400? Seems like a 16' cuddy, with hard top, on a trailer, would weigh more than that.

Specs list boat and motor at 1050, plus 50 lbs for the hard top, and 300 lbs for the trailer. That still leaves 300 lbs under the limit.

 

[MrBigStuff]

Re: Towing with F-Body

RWD w/LSD will make a big difference.

As you probably know, your 300lb margin will get used up fast when you add up weight of; battery(ies), anchor(s), gasoline, the obligatory refreshment chest stuffed w/ice and other assorted miscellaneous sundry items...

 

[Tacklewasher]

Re: Towing with F-Body

Specs list boat and motor at 1050, plus 50 lbs for the hard top, and 300 lbs for the trailer. That still leaves 300 lbs under the limit.

Take it over a scale.

My 18' tinny still weighs in over 2K (990kg) on the local courtesy scale.

 

[kevman]

Re: Towing with F-Body

How far did you say you were taking it? Its one thing if you were taking it up into the mountains or something. The main thing is keep the trans cool. A friend of mine installed a gauge so he could monitior it. He installed the sensor in the pan and ran it up to a gauge. I dont think its that costly. But, like the others have said, I doubt it would be a problem.
Kevin

 

[Mark42]

Re: Towing with F-Body

I would tow with the boat empty. No fuel, no food or accessories. Just the boat. Also The trip is about 160 miles, rather flat, definitely not mountainous.

I might take it over to the local truck stop and get it weighted this weekend. I agree that is the best way of determining the true weight.

Luckilly, trans and motor oil coolers are rather inexpensive and easy to install. And they pay dividends to the vehicle even when its not towing.

Both Curt and Draw Tight make nice hitches, (there are others too). They all look pretty much identical.

The one from Hidden Hitch has a "flat" draw bar. Kind of odd, but its probably well hidden. I think I'll pass on this flat bar design, seeing as the Sienna has the 1-1/4" draw bar. (common class 1 & 2 draw bar size)

And the Draw-Tight looks like when the draw bar is not installed, it will hardly show at all. Probably go with Draw-Tite or Curt. Both allow dual exhaust.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Towing with F-Body

Specs list boat and motor at 1050, plus 50 lbs for the hard top, and 300 lbs for the trailer. That still leaves 300 lbs under the limit.

i would have thought that it would be substantially heavier than that also, did some digging, here is the original spec sheet for the 1600 cuddy... 1140 pounds with the 85 hp chrysler force boatanchor.

impressive to get a cuddy in that weight!

http://www.shareaproject.com/fullImages/8530.jpg