Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

[Ed Idaho]

I have a aluminum pontoon houseboat. Vintage 1985. The Volvo Penta 131AQ 4 cylinder engine sets in an aluminum pod between the pontoons.
The pod had some scairy cracks so we pulled the 44 foot / 20 ton boat / beast...no easy task... and had it welded in numerous places.

Unfortunately the heat from the welding seems to have fried the seal where the stern drive goes threw the aluminum transom. It leaks like a sieve...or worse.

On the inside of the aluminum transom there is a ply wood reinforcement where the engine/outdrive go through the transom. It may be charcoal.

I am checking what I been told, I understand that I have to:
1. Remove the out drive
2. Unbolt engine mounts and slide engine back from transom to get to bolts that hold out drive collar to the transom.
3. Replace rubber gasket that is between outside collar and transom.

Is there any special sealant I should or could use?

How difficult is this to do? Any special tools or alignments necessary?
Can some one point me to a tech handbook or manual that describes this procedure?

Also. If I go this far I wonder if it is time for a rebuild or a new engine.
The motor has just under 8000 hrs on it. It has been governored down to 3000 rpm its entire life and the engine oil has been changed every 50 hrs.
Seems to run great..but that is a lot of hours. I was told it wouldn't go much past 7000 hrs by one mechanic, then another said I could get to 10000 with the low rpm and the oil changes. How do I check if I should rebuild / replace.

Local boat repair folks said check compression. If its between 105 and 110 I should not rebuild. They also said a rebuild is about $5500. I can buy a brand new 4 cylinder complete Volvo with new out drive for about $7000.
http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/engines.shtml#gasio

Any other suggestions where to buy would be appreciated, this one is in Main, a bit far to drive and pick up!

I did have the outdrive completely rebuilt about 2 years ago.

How do I tell which out drive I have? 270? 280?

Is that a ridiculous rebuild price? Is buying the complete engine a good idea?

Is anything I said here wrong? As you see I have lots of questions. I cant sleep worrying about my 20 ton baby. She needs my help. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Ed

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

$5500 is way out of line to rebuild a 4cyl.If the motor runs good why replace??? The drive comes off then the bellows then past the bellows is 6 bolts. This is your motor mount.Support the motor and remove,remove the inner transom shield then the outer.The replacement seal can be bought at any Volvo/Penta dealer.
Look on line or this site for a manual and no special tools are needed .
The difference between the 280 and 270 is the lower unit.Post a pic and someone will tell what you have(probably a 270)J

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

If the exhaust comes out the cavitation plate its a 280; if it comes out the trim tab its a 270. And at 8,000 hrs I would at least give the engine some new rings and bearings if nothing else; and Volvo's are such slow wearing engines you may not need anything else, maybe a new exhaust manifold too. 'nutcase

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

Here are the links to your manuals:
Motor: http://www.4shared.com/file/64741910/25295432/230_250_251_131151171.html

270 Outdrive:http://www.4shared.com/file/51930153/3a7e6375/270_Outdrive_service_manual.html
(275/280 and variations are similar)

That'll help with identifying parts and how the engine and outdrive are mounted.

Repowering is allways an option but like the others have said, these motors can often outlive the boats in which they're mounted so a replacement or rebuild may be pretty cost effective. From your screen name, I'm guessing you're in the Northwest. There are plenty of these motors in this neck of the woods as well as some pretty darned good wrenches.

You might want to try to get a better estimate on a rebuild before you do a wholesale replacement.

 

[Dave1251]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

Maybe I missed something, but I sure do not see a engine, drive and transom housing for $7,000.00 on the website.

The 3.0 GL engine will not directly drop in and replace the AQ131 engine. You be much better off with a rebuilt AQ 131 and not have to change everything out needed to convert to a 3.0GL.

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

Local boat repair folks said check compression. If its between 105 and 110 I should not rebuild. They also said a rebuild is about $5500. I can buy a brand new 4 cylinder complete Volvo with new out drive for about $7000.

From the sounds of things, you are talking 2 completely different engines. The 3.0GL is a GM engine used from 1994 to present, the AQ131 is a Volvo engine used prior to 94. The 3.0GL can not be bolted up to a 131 outdrive. No way.
The Volvo engines are VERY expensive parts wise to rebuild.

Regarding the compression. THe 131's may not even start with only 110 psi compression.
You should see 140 to 170 for a usable engine.

 

[Ed Idaho]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

Wow! Thank you all for your quick responses and taking the time to help me.

The $5500 estimate and compression figures were given to me by the local boat repair place. I knew going in that they would have a ridiculous price (they are well known for it) but I figured it was a place to start. They are also the ones that told me 105 to 110 compression was OK. I will hope for 140 to 170.

I did take the drive off a few years ago and had it rebuilt. Took it 180 miles to the big city of Spokane. So hopefully I can get to that point again. Off is easy. On is the tough part! Real tough part is getting 20 tons of houseboat out of the water!

So then it sounds like I support the motor, undo the two forward motor mounts and then unbolt the engine inner transom shield? Are the bolts on the inner shield the same bolts as the 6 bolts on the out side of the transom. That is, do they just go through the transom holding the inner and outer collar together sandwiching the transom? Or is there bolts holding the engine to the inner shield? I can see this is going to interesting hanging upside down like a bat into that engine compartment!

Is there a seal inside and outside?

Here is a pic of my out drive with the welding fry up of my seal. Can you tell which drive it is by this picture? I can find some others if you cant. Hopefully this link works.

http://www.lozar.info/drive.html

If I understand nutcase correctly the exhaust is coming out the cavitation plate here making this a 280?

I am aware that volvo parts are VERY expensive.
That is why I thought just take the whole unit out and put the 3gl in...engine and out drive.
The http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/prodbull05/3.0GL_SX_04_05.pdf at marine parts express is $6050

I did not know this was a completely different animal.

Why couldn't one just drop that 3gl in, hook up the gas and throttle cable and shift cable and be good to go... probably some motor mount changing to do? Its just an aluminum box where the engine sets.

I will check the compression and go from there. Maybe find some other mechanic shop that is not as "proud" of their work as the first place I talked too.. if the compression isn't so good.

Simply "changing rings" is not in my skill level. Thats more like rocket science to me.

Thank you for the manual links!

Ed

(I am in north Idaho far from any real population center with real boat services)
Dworhak Reservoir - check it out - I am the president of the DRA and maintain the web site
http://www.dworshak.org/

Thank you all for your assistance!

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

that is quite the barge Ed!! Spacious.

I've never had my transom shield off but it sounds like your on the right track. the gasket is on the outside.

BTW, its either a 270 or 275 outdrive.

Have a look at this link

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Connecting_Components_Aq_Drive_Unit_275/dm/*******.025562374--**********.143926072--store_id.366--view_id.324026

Funny there is no gasket shown on the parts breakdown.

If you repowered to a 3.0 you'd have to switch the entire drivetrain and change the hole in your transom. 8000 hours, is this true??

Do the compression test and let us know what you find.

BTW, welcome to Iboats.

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

Sorry I looked again, It's #19 in parts list.

 

[Ed Idaho]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

I been internet digging also
I think from what i see in the 131aq Volvo brochures it is a 275 out drive

The hour meter says 7800
The folks I bought it from indicated it was never overhauled and those were the real hrs

Everytime i tell people that they are amazed

The one houseboat mechanic from Sicamous, BC where I bought it indicated like I said earlier
Keep the governor on it (its a copper tube on the throttle cable) that limits it to 3000 rpm and change the oil and filter every 50 hrs and she may make 10,000 hrs!

Thanks for your help
I need to fins someone to turn the key and find my compression gauge

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

I need to find someone to turn the key and find my compression gauge

Ed,
You can also do it by yourself:

• Remove all the spark plugs
• Disconnect the + wire from the coil
• Put the throttle in the full open position
• Turn the key to "on"
• Short across the starter contacts to turn it over.

Let us know how it turns out. If you think you might want to rebuild or replace the engine, I've heard of an AQ151 in Spokane that is supposedly in good shape. If it actually is in good shape, it'll be a relatively easy swap.

 

[Ed Idaho]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

Thanks pirate

I did get out to the boat and studied the engine / transom situation. Also studied the schematics you folks pointed me at... also found my Clymer for the Volvo Penta...however my poor old brain cant find the Mercruiser Clymer I hid from myself.

If I see this correctly, I have room in the houseboat engine pod to slide the motor forward a foot or so after I loosen the forward engine mounts, take off the outdrive and the clamping ring. Then I can loosen the transom shield bolts to get it off.

Here is a look at the engine compartment (after I pumper 18 inches of water out of it)

http://www.lozar.info/drive.html


I was thinking it may be possible to loosen the transom shield and slide the engine assembly back without undoing the clamping ring which would give me a gap between the transom and transom shield that I could seal, bu the exhaust pipe may restrict that movement.

If the compression checks out I wont move the engine any further than I have too. It is really a hassle to get the big boat out of the water. The roads down from the lake are quite narrow so I generally do the work in the parking lot which involves a permit from the Corp of Engineers and they would rather not have me there for more than a few days. Also any tool or part you forget is 8 miles back down the hill and 8 miles back up. Sheesh. This will be interesting. I will hopefully have all the orings and gaskets and replaceables in on hand when this happens. Not sure if I will go for it now or wait till early spring. Snow on the ramp would really complicate this.....

I been kinda busy doing other stuff winterizing my house and yard and my Sea Ray ski boat, also and the weather has been rather lousy.

The boat is moored about a mile out in the bay and my access is a 14 foot "dingboat". Wind and rain and waves are sorta unpleasant. I will get there soon.

Thanks again everyone for all the advice and suggestions. As soon as I get compression I will let you know what I find. Keep your fingers crossed.

Ed

 

[Ed Idaho]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

Woooo!!! Hooooo!!!
I finally located a compression tester (my friend had the guy that lost his borrowed one buy a new one)

What a day...its like 38 degrees as i gathers pump and hoses and loads into my ding boat to go out to the moored boat

windy cool morn
14 foot dingboat doing some bouncing on the mile run out to the boat

course my engine compartment is flooded because of the fried seal with the weld fix...so I uses my portable pump and generator and then de-winterize the AQ131A (3rd time this year...if i pulls her there be 2 more times!)

She starts right up...even with a wet butt
warms her up
pulls all the plugs
opens the throttle


the flooded engine compartment only floods to the bottom of the starer and main pulley wheel.... looks horrible but seems to be OK

Hardest part of this was getting the compression tester hose screwed into the plug
but i got better at it as i wet along
always very cautious and weary of plug threads being clean and not buggered


First run
1 166
2 165
3 162
4 172
WOOOHOOO!!!! happy boat guy
I was thinking she be ring worn down low
I noted that the higher reading on 4 was when I cranked the engine longer
(i was gettin brave)

So I did the whole thing again crankin a bit more
1 179
2 170
3 170
4 176

WOOO HOOO YAHOO All RIGHT!!!!

7,400 hrs on my 4 cylinder? and compression is great!!!
wow I be a happy boater
BUT
the engine compartment still leaks like a river
i has to pull and figure out the reseal transom maneuver
its getting chilly here in north idaho
maybe spring time
maybe a warm few days in february
i need some parts..seals....etc

 

[Ed Idaho]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

Woooo!!! Hooooo!!!
I finally located a compression tester (my friend had the guy that lost his borrowed one buy a new one)

What a day...its like 38 degrees as i gathers pump and hoses and loads into my ding boat to go out to the moored boat

windy cool morn
14 foot dingboat doing some bouncing on the mile run out to the boat

course my engine compartment is flooded because of the fried seal with the weld fix...so I uses my portable pump and generator and then de-winterize the AQ131A (3rd time this year...if i pulls her there be 2 more times!)

She starts right up...even with a wet butt
warms her up
pulls all the plugs
opens the throttle


the flooded engine compartment only floods to the bottom of the starer and main pulley wheel.... looks horrible but seems to be OK

Hardest part of this was getting the compression tester hose screwed into the plug
but i got better at it as i wet along
always very cautious and weary of plug threads being clean and not buggered


First run
1 166
2 165
3 162
4 172
WOOOHOOO!!!! happy boat guy
I was thinking she be ring worn down low
I noted that the higher reading on 4 was when I cranked the engine longer
(i was gettin brave)

So I did the whole thing again crankin a bit more
1 179
2 170
3 170
4 176

7,400 hrs on my 4 cylinder? and compression is great!!!
wow I be a happy boater
BUT
the engine compartment still leaks like a river
i has to pull and figure out the reseal transom maneuver
its getting chilly here in north idaho
maybe spring time
maybe a warm few days in february
i need some parts..seals....etc

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo 131AQ Engine and Outdrive Question

Great news Ed, Keep us posted.