Checked lower unit oil - White

[EricKit]

Sig has boat details. I'm just wondering what I should do. I took my boat into a mechanic to have my forward gear in the upper gear housing replaced. When I got it back my mechanic told me I'd need to add a quart of oil. I checked the oil and there was not enough to even see it on the dipstick. I added the quart of oil, and measured it and it looked good. Good color (But it hadn't mixed with the rest of the oil yet).

I tested the boat with muff's on and it tested great for forward and reverse. After I ran it for a few minutes I waited for the oil to settle and then measured it again. When I measured it this time it was very white... I called my mechanic and he said all the seals looked fine when he reinstalled it. He suggested I drain it and re-add oil and test it again. He said some water may have gotten in it while he was working on it, but he didn't think so (He said it was open for a while). What I plan on doing is doing what he said, then if that doesn't work I will replace the o-rings in the lower unit. What do you think? Thanks

UPDATE: Drained the oil, it all looks like egg nog. Retested, more at bottom.

 

[Don S]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

I would be interested to know what kind of mechanic you have.
If it's a quart low, why didn't he fill it up? How did he check it to make sure the repairs work? You can't LOOK at seals and tell if they are ok or not. The only way to find that out is to drain the oil and do a pressure and vacuum check.
When he had the upper off, was there water in the bellows, or did he just not mention it?

 

[EricKit]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

I would be interested to know what kind of mechanic you have.
If it's a quart low, why didn't he fill it up? How did he check it to make sure the repairs work? You can't LOOK at seals and tell if they are ok or not. The only way to find that out is to drain the oil and do a pressure and vacuum check.
When he had the upper off, was there water in the bellows, or did he just not mention it?

He didn't mention it, but I do know the bellows were recently replaced becaues they were cracked. It was someone who works on the side who used to be a mechanic... the only person who would look at my old boat in my area. I actually had to find the part myself on e-bay, and I seriously doubt that check was done. To check that the repairs worked I'm sure he put it into gear and checked that the prop locked the opposite direction. The battery died while he had it, so he couldn't test if it worked (I guess no backup), but it was under warranty so I took it to walmart for a new one.

So most likely a seal? Or should I check to see if it happens again? Thank you. I found a diagram for my lower unit and it looks like I need to just remove a few screws to get to the o-ring.

 

[cr2k]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

Your "mechanic" did a gears job and didn't change the oil?
Where did he leave your parts that they may have gotten water in them? In the yard by the sprinklers?

Time for a new shop.

But in case the water was in there from a legitimate reason. I would change oil and check again.

On the Volvo upper the input seal rides on a metal ring that should be replaced every time it is taken apart along with the o-ring behind it.

 

[EricKit]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

Your "mechanic" did a gears job and didn't change the oil?
Where did he leave your parts that they may have gotten water in them? In the yard by the sprinklers?

Time for a new shop.

But in case the water was in there from a legitimate reason. I would change oil and check again.

On the Volvo upper the input seal rides on a metal ring that should be replaced every time it is taken apart along with the o-ring behind it.

Thank you for your time. Okay, that is in the upper unit? My mechanic said he thinks the lower unit is where the o-ring would need to be replaced if a quick oil change doesn't fix it, but it could also be the upper? And yes, he probably kept it outside and it did rain a lot, and yes time to find a new shop.

 

[Don S]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

It was someone who works on the side who used to be a mechanic...

Now, THAT is plain ole scary.
The shift cone is around 400 bucks, the gears and bearings however, are expensive. Your mechanic missed the fact that water in the bellows will allow water to get into the drive through the input shaft seal. The sealing washer (What Volvo calls it) gets rusty and takes out the seal. Then water gets into the drive. If the washer and the seal aren't replaced, and the bellows is replaced, then you will loose all your gear lube into the new bellows and out of the drive and you WILL loose the upper gears and bearings.
Even a part time hack mechanic would change the oil in the the drive after repairs.
Personally, I think you spent a lot of money for nothing and what you paid for may not even be done correctly.
You might want to vist the Adults Only sticky at the top of this forum and download an OEM service manual for that drive and read what it really takes to change gears and other parts.
You may want to find a real Volvo tech to check it out, or you will be spending even more money to re-re-repair.

 

[EricKit]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

Now, THAT is plain ole scary.
The shift cone is around 400 bucks, the gears and bearings however, are expensive. Your mechanic missed the fact that water in the bellows will allow water to get into the drive through the input shaft seal. The sealing washer (What Volvo calls it) gets rusty and takes out the seal. Then water gets into the drive. If the washer and the seal aren't replaced, and the bellows is replaced, then you will loose all your gear lube into the new bellows and out of the drive and you WILL loose the upper gears and bearings.
Even a part time hack mechanic would change the oil in the the drive after repairs.
Personally, I think you spent a lot of money for nothing and what you paid for may not even be done correctly.
You might want to vist the Adults Only sticky at the top of this forum and download an OEM service manual for that drive and read what it really takes to change gears and other parts.
You may want to find a real Volvo tech to check it out, or you will be spending even more money to re-re-repair.

Thank you for all your time also! I'm not sure who replaced the bellows, it was a full-time shop though I do know that. I bought an entire upper unit off e-bay so I have replacements for all the gears. I did waste money, I'm sure of it now.

So, I was trying to follow everything you said, I need to compare it to the manual I have to begin understanding. I didn't see the sealing washer, where is that? I hope there isn't a lot to do, I've never opened the lower unit or anything.

 

[captmello]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

Before you start pulling it apart, you could pressure test the outdrive to try to find where and if it's leaking. The seal Don reffered to is in the upper gear housing. Part of the Double bearing box.


#21 in this link I believe.

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Upper_Gear_Unit_Aq_Drive_Unit_270_270t_B/dm/*******.766032694--**********.354598828--store_id.366--view_id.317352

Replaceing this part is not for the novice boat owner.

What did the mechanic actually do to your boat?

 

[EricKit]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

Before you start pulling it apart, you could pressure test the outdrive to try to find where and if it's leaking. The seal Don reffered to is in the upper gear housing. Part of the Double bearing box.


#21 in this link I believe.

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Upper_Gear_Unit_Aq_Drive_Unit_270_270t_B/dm/*******.766032694--**********.354598828--store_id.366--view_id.317352

Replaceing this part is not for the novice boat owner.

What did the mechanic actually do to your boat?

In that diagram you posted, he replaced number 13. I wanted to watch him do it so I could learn, but he did it before I got there. I really hope there was just water in the unit from sitting out a while.

Quick question, how can I pressure test it (or do I need a real mechanic)? And also, you said it's not for the novice, but I do want to learn, do I need special tools and parts?

 

[Don S]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

To replace the gear set, the gears must ALL be reshimmed. No 2 gear sets are the same, and no two housings are the same. It's about a 4 hour job, IF you have the proper tools. There is also bearing preload that must be set on the double bearing box.
If not set up correctly, don't expect the gears to last very long.

 

[captmello]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

In that diagram you posted, he replaced number 13. I wanted to watch him do it so I could learn, but he did it before I got there. I really hope there was just water in the unit from sitting out a while.

Quick question, how can I pressure test it (or do I need a real mechanic)? And also, you said it's not for the novice, but I do want to learn, do I need special tools and parts?

I'm am not an expert on the innerworkings of the upper gear housing. I sure hope it was assembled correctly.

Pressure testing does involve an attachment to screw into your outdrive with a gauge and pump fitting. I've never used one. It seems like a shop could test it for less than the cost of the tools. I'd call around.

I must say, from what you've said about the mechanic, I would have trouble trusting any of the work he did and would start looking for a competent Volvo AQ series tech. I understand you want to learn, but rebuilding the outdrive is not what you need to know. You need to learn standard maintenece procedures etc.

This site is great for us DIYers but we all have our limitations.

Follow what Don S recommends. He's a pro and should know the order in which you should be going about digging yourself out of this hole and back on the water.

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

 

[captmello]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

To replace the gear set, the gears must ALL be reshimmed. No 2 gear sets are the same, and no two housings are the same. It's about a 4 hour job, IF you have the proper tools. There is also bearing preload that must be set on the double bearing box.
If not set up correctly, don't expect the gears to last very long.

I was afraid of that. Do you think he reshimmed?

 

[EricKit]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

I was afraid of that. Do you think he reshimmed?

Ahh! I doubt he did that... Thank you Don S and captmello. So it's sounding like what I need to do is go to a real mechanic and ask him take it apart, reshim the gears, and put it back together...

 

[captmello]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

Ahh! I doubt he did that... Thank you Don S and captmello. So it's sounding like what I need to do is go to a real mechanic and ask him take it apart, reshim the gears, and put it back together...

It does sound that way.

A real mechanic should also replace the seal and sealing washer(if necessary) while the upper is taken apart.

If you can't find a good mechanic in your area, let me know.

Have you got the upper gear assembly off of the boat right now? If not, that is something for you to learn.

 

[EricKit]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

It does sound that way.

A real mechanic should also replace the seal and sealing washer(if necessary) while the upper is taken apart.

If you can't find a good mechanic in your area, let me know.

Have you got the upper gear assembly off of the boat right now? If not, that is something for you to learn.

I have not yet, that is something I should learn. Can I not remove the lower without removing the upper?

UPDATE: I drained the oil. It all looked like egg nog.

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

I have not yet, that is something I should learn. Can I not remove the lower without removing the upper?

UPDATE: I drained the oil. It all looked like egg nog.

Pressure test and vac test it. That will at least start to tell you how the water got in. The tools are cheap and any automotive store and the procedure is in the manual. It's very simple.

Whether the work was done right, that egg nog tells you a whole lot about the care that went into it. I doubt very much things are shimmed properly.

Don't feel too bad. Most of us have made the mistake of using a bad mechanic. Mine cost me a grand and a lawyer to get my boat back from the guy. In the end All I got was a shiny new gear on a rubber band engine.

Just find a good guy and learn from it

 

[EricKit]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

Okay, so I drained it, filled it with oil until it would take no more (Too much). Then I drained it down to the proper level this morning to see what it looked like so I could compare that look to how it looks after. It was mostly good, but still had some white in it (much better than before, just from residue I'm guessing).

I ran the boat like I did last time on the ear muffs, checked forward and reverse. I used the dipstick to check the oil, and it was good! Then I drained out of the bottom a small amount and it was good! This is exactly what I did before that turned my oil to egg nog. I'm happy, there could still be a small leak I'm guessing but nothing bad.

New question, I noticed my exhaust bellows are leaking some water through a small hole... is that a big deal?

 

[captmello]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

I ran the boat like I did last time on the ear muffs, checked forward and reverse. I used the dipstick to check the oil, and it was good!

This really doesn't tell us anything. Water leaking into the drive does not come from the water intake. It would be drawn into the outdrive through the upper gear box from a leaking ujoint bellows and bad seal as discussed earlier in the thread or through a seal in the drive while the boat is in the water.

Since we don't know the condition of the oil before your brought it to the mechanic, who's to say where the water came from.

If you plan to use the boat as is, you will need to pressure test to check for leaks. However, I think you realize running it without having it checked by a competent mechanic could lead to failure.

If you're planning to have the upper gear assembly checked over, the outdrive will be partially resealed as a result of the service work. Because of this, I'd wait to pressure test the drive until you have it gone over.

New question, I noticed my exhaust bellows are leaking some water through a small hole... is that a big deal?

No big deal at all. Some bellows have holes from the factory.

As always, let us know what happens.

Good Luck.

 

[EricKit]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

Since we don't know the condition of the oil before your brought it to the mechanic, who's to say where the water came from.

I do know before I brought it to the mechanic the oil was good. Does this help at all? And it can't be any of the seals in the lower unit? Thanks again

And thanks for the info on the exhaust bellows.

 

[ENSIGN]

Re: Checked lower unit oil - White

Time for a new mechanic!!!