Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

[bonitasprings]

No spark on #1. I've done the following:

replaced plugs
replaced plug wires
replaced coil
replaced powerpack
tested for continuity (ohm) -- OK
tested for shorts -- OK
Checked all grounds -- OK
Checked polarity -- OK
Spark at other 3 cylinders
swapped sides powerpack-problem didn't move
swapped sides with a known good coil-problem didn't move
gone as far as I can with the equip/money I have. pulling flywheel soon to check condition/wiring underneath. Before I got it it had fried an egition circuit...blew a 30 amp fuse. What could cause that? What am I looking for under the flywheel?

Don't have a CD tester. Someone mentioned that there is an adapter for a voltmeter that can measure the stator. Where can I get one and what do I ask for?

Thanks Tim

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

The four coils on each spark plug have really low failure rates, but it's easy to swap the non-firing one with one of the other three and see what happens. If the engine is a 1981 as you say, it should have two power packs on it-one for each head. On these engines, the power pack is usually the first/most common suspect. The easiest thing to do is to swap the two power packs and see if the no spark problem moves to the other head. If swapping the packs does not change your result, then you need to look to the stator or the timer base, both relatively expensive items. It's worth your time to do some diagnosis on them before you consider just replacing them. A true factory service manual will show you test procedures on the whole ignition system, including the stator and timer base. You can get one from Ken Cook Co. in Milwaukee-they are also on the web.

 

[bktheking]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

If swapping the packs does not change your result, then you need to look to the stator or the timer base, both relatively expensive items.

Agreed, unless you have spares these 2 items need to be tested. The other components were a simple swap , I think you would have found as you did buying new parts that the issue wasn't coils or powerpack.

 

[bonitasprings]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Thanks Guys! I'm in the process of pulling the flywheel (between work and tapping out a previously stuck stud in one of the harmonic balancer bolt holes). Question...is it possible that the stator is just corroded and a fine emory paper might fix (funds ar tight)

 

[bktheking]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Generally the stators don't corrode, they break down due to high heat over time from generating AC voltage (age) or a motor running too hot, look for what's been described as "black goo" , that's how you know they are breaking down. This thing have a charging problem, check the timer base too.


Check this PDF


http://www.cdielectronics.com/downl...1978-1998 65-140 HP (Without Quick-Start).pdf

 

[bktheking]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Also, look for a broken wire going to the trigger coil that supplies plug one, test it as well.

 

[bonitasprings]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Thanks BKTHEKING! I printed out your page from the tech manual. Really appreciate that. I'll look for that 'black goo" and check the wire going to the trigger coil (whatever that is).

No on the charger question....seems to be working fine. charges very, very good.

 

[bonitasprings]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

One thing I forgot to mention:

The guy I got the boat from fried the ignition circuit somehow. Fried the 30 amp fuse and apparrently the ignition wire too. I ended up running a new wire from the ignition switch back to the starter solenoid with a new fuse. Started right up. Not sure if this cylinder was not sparking before the ignition circuit blew.

Does that give any kind of tip off as to why the #1 cyl doesn't have a spark?

Tim

 

[bktheking]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Trigger coil's, there are 2 of them from what I know. They tell the powerpack's when to fire. There are 2 winding's in each trigger coil which allow the motor to fire 2 of the 4 plugs depending on where the flywheel is in conjunction to each coil. If one of the windings is broken or one of the wires going from the trigger coil to the powerpack is broken you won't get fire on plug #1. If you have a manual it will tell you how to test the trigger coils, they make up the timer base and sensor assembly.

If you don't have a DVA, test resistance to the trigger coils as stated in what I refered you to. As far as frying components anything is possible but at the same time there is no point in guessing what "might of happened". Most electronics is sensitive to to shorting out circuits and putting power back through circuits and all that fun stuff. Now the task is to find out what is blown, if I were you i'd go through the entire system and do all the checks to make sure something else isn't the issue.

 

[bonitasprings]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Oh...OK. Solec (or is it Seloc) calls it a "sensor" coil. That manual also mentions a test instrument called a CD tester....which I don't have...By the way, what color is the "stop wire" at the powerpack?

Thanks
Tim 239-216-1150

 

[bonitasprings]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Also, on the page for tests from the manual you sent it states (on the stator and timer base resistance and DVA tests):

Wire Read To

What does "read to" mean?

Thanks

Tim

 

[bktheking]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Black and yellow and a CD tester is for measuring direct voltage. If you have a meter (probably won't do CD testing) you can purchase a DVA or direct voltage adapter as its known to plug into your meter in order to read the high voltage the system puts out. Start with any type of OHM or resistance tests, if they pass then move on to the high voltage readings.

 

[bktheking]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Also, on the page for tests from the manual you sent it states (on the stator and timer base resistance and DVA tests):

Wire Read To

What does "read to" mean?

You're going to be measuring from one wire say white for example to the other's. Disconnect the 4 wire connector between the PP and the timer base. Then stick your black lead from the meter into one and measure the others that it asks you to measure, the resistance should read either within spec or out of spec. Your Seloc manual should detail out the tests a little better than the PDF I sent you, it was only as a guide.

 

[bonitasprings]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Thanks! Didn't have time before work today to do the tests but did notice that the insulation on the wires coming from under the flywheel to the 4 prong connector that goes to the bad side (starboard) was a little spongy/sticky like it had gotten a little warm sometime in the past. Messed with Black/yellow as it seemed the worse (actually cut it about 1 1/2" up to inspect it and then used an inline connector to reconnect). I had spark in #1 after that!....for a little while. Blk/yel goes to "M" in the ignition switch (one of the M's anyway) What is "M" ???

Flywheel nut soaking in PB overnight for the first attempt at removal tomorrow to get a better inspection of the wires/connections therein


Thanks
Tim

 

[ezeke]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

"...Messed with Black/yellow as it seemed the worse (actually cut it about 1 1/2" up to inspect it and then used an inline connector to reconnect). I had spark in #1 after that!....for a little while. Blk/yel goes to "M" in the ignition switch (one of the M's anyway) What is "M" ???..."

Black and yellow wire to the powerpack is the kill wire. It acts by grounding the powerpack so that it cannot fire.

When the ignition switch is turned to the off position, the switch closes the two "M" connections, one of which runs to the black engine ground and the other to the black and yellow wire.

The same circuit is closed by an emergency lanyard if one is available.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Tim, please don't post your phone number anymore. It is against the posting guidelines. Use the PM system for personal contact if you need to. Thanks.

 

[bonitasprings]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Oops! Sorry

Tim

 

[bonitasprings]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

this is my original post with new information (in red). I appreciate everyones help.



No spark on #1. I've done the following:

replaced plugs
replaced plug wires
replaced coil
replaced powerpack
tested for continuity (ohm) -- OK
tested for shorts -- OK
Checked all grounds -- OK
Checked polarity -- OK
Spark at other 3 cylinders
swapped sides powerpack-problem didn't move
swapped sides with a known good coil-problem didn't move
Disconnected stop circuit-no change
stated engined and disonnected main (red) plug-no change

Gone as far as I can with the equip/money I have. pulling flywheel soon to check condition/wiring underneath. Before I got it it had fried an ignition circuit...blew a 30 amp fuse. What could cause that? What am I looking for under the flywheel? I'm hoping against hope that it's a wire that melted in a previous overheating situation and the wire can be replaced. What's odd to me is that it's only one cylinder.

Don't have a CD tester. Someone mentioned that there is an adapter for a voltmeter that can measure the stator. Where can I get one and what do I ask for?

Thanks Tim

 

[bktheking]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

Something blowing a fuse is usually a short or bad contact or a weak fuse perhaps, I think you are referring to the fuse that feeds from the ignition switch to the solenoid. Did you replace it and did it blow again?


I sent you a reference to test resistance concerning the stator. You don't need a DVA to test it, simply a multimeter.

This is what your stator might look like once you get the flywheel off.

CDI also sells a DVA or you could build your own from radio shack stock electronics, a cap, resistor and diode, pretty simple to build.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Johnson 1981 V-4 90 no spark on #1

A bad rectifier can blow the fuse if the diode wiring fuses inside the rectifier potting. Also, when that happens, full battery voltage can reach the stator and damage that.

You should not use a 30 amp fuse, the harness wiring is not designed for that much load. Use AGA 20.

Disconnect yor rectifier and try the ignition tests again.