Repairing brakes... Couple questions

[josh1981]

So when I bought my boat last summer the brakes did not work. When I tried to open the reservoir and check the fluid the cap broke off. So I figured I would replace the whole actuator. I think I am going to get the tie down model 66 for drum brakes.

Do I need the back up solenoid? My driveway is a hill and back up it regularly.
Is there a repair kit to replace the parts on the brakes them selves with out replacing the whole drum? I have not opened it up and looked in there yet but would like to get it all working good since I have no idea when they were serviced last. I do not know a brand or model. Do I need that or are 10" drum brakes pretty universal?

This is my first time messing with trailer brakes and have very little experience with brakes at all.
Thanks

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

Reverse solenoids are usually used on disc brakes which are just as effective in reverse as they are in forward. Drum brakes are substantially less effective in reverse, so many trailer don't have a reverse lockout. That said, drums do have "some" effect in reverse, so a reverse solenoid could be handy to have. If I were replacing my actuator, I'd add one. You'll have to re-do or add to your trailer wiring to use it.

You can buy just the parts you need to fix your brakes. I have had to repalce a few slave cylinders over the years and keep a spare in my garage, just in case. I had to go through a dealer for my axle manufacturer to get the parts I needed. My trailer uses Dexter Axles and they have plenty of dealers around the US, which was handy for me becuase I could not get the parts at a local auto parts store.

IF you find that you do need to replace the actuator and the entire drum setup, perhaps a complete kit would be more cost effective. If I were looking at kits, I'd be strongly considering a stainless steel disc brake kit. Disc brakes are less likely to fail from repeated dunkings and have better braking power.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

So when I bought my boat last summer the brakes did not work.
Thanks

This is normal....boats don't generally have brakes......

 

[josh1981]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

This is normal....boats don't generally have brakes......

Nice

I am looking at replacing the actuator ( http://www.boattrailerpartssuperstore.com/product_p/47210.htm ) and the brake assy ( http://www.boattrailerpartssuperstore.com/product_p/11212.htm ). If I do that basically everything will be new except the lines and the hubs. Right? And putting a new assy. in the hubs should bolt off and bolt on right? Can I do this with out replacing the hubs?

 

[Lou C]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

If you are in freshwater you can keep the drum brake system and they can work fine if kept in adjustment...if the drums are OK the most economical plan is to buy a pair of fully assembled backing plates that way everything is new to start...then check your bearings and races in the drums for wear and make sure the bearings are not scored...worn or showing small pits on the friction surfaces...when you put it all back together make sure to clean and pack the bearings thoroughly and install a new grease seal...and you will have to adust the bearing pre-load. If you buy free backing drum brake assemblies then there is no problem with backing up and you don't need a back up solenoid as with disc brakes. I'd check out the tech articles at Champion Trailers, they have a whole section on how to install a drum brake system including packing and adjusting the bearings...

http://www.championtrailers.com/techsup.html#techretro

http://www.championtrailers.com/DRUM BRAKE KITS.htm

they sell the whole kit which makes sense if you also need to replace the brake lines but if the drums and lines are OK then all you need is the actuator and the backing plate assemblies...and new grease seals...plus bearings and races if needed....

I put in one of these drum systems back in 04 and it's worked well and I only had to replace one wheel cylinder because it leaked...
If you want to go with Kodiak discs the cost is a bit higher but they are easier to maintain and some feel they work better...personally I am in a hilly area and I prefer drums with a surge system because the return springs allow the brakes to release more completely than discs do which always have some drag...

 

[josh1981]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

I did not even think of this earlier. I am thinking I want the tie down actuator but am replacing a titan actuator. Does anybody know if the mounting holes are the same.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

Why are you placing the whole actuator when you can buy the master cylinder for it at championtrailer?

 

[josh1981]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

Why are you placing the whole actuator when you can buy the master cylinder for it at championtrailer?

I thought of that. But if I am going to repair my current actuator I think will need to replace more than just the master cylinder and I figured if I can get a new tie down actuator for $99 why not. I am going to spend pretty close to that in parts for my current one.
Master cylinder = 59.95
Shock Damper = 34.95
I say the shock damper because I can move my current one back and forth by hand pretty easy. Is that normal?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

I am not sure about the shock damper. If you want to be sure though, I agree, that the new actuator would be the better choice.

The Titan coupler is only $119 at Champion and you wouldn't have to drill new holes. That may be a consideration. Make sure you find out how much shipping is to make your final price determination.

 

[tractoman]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

I'd just get a new actuator of the same type you have and replace it all, or take the parts you need and replace what is necessary and keep the rest for spare parts. I rebuilt my Model 60 and replaced the entire brake assemblies on mine instead of replacing cylinders and shoes. It is pretty easy that way. Repacked the bearings, bled the lines and installed new seals. Now I know what vintage all of the components are and souldn't have any surprises.

 

[Utahboatnut]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

I just re did my model 60 last year and it wasn't bad at all. I think the new master was 58.00 and then I just went with new preassembled backer plates. Removed old installed new hooked up brake lines and let gravity bleed while I redid the bearings. Reinstalled hubs, tires, wheels and was good to go. I don't have any experience with tie down brake parts, however I did use tie down bearings, races, seals a few years back and I wasn't all that impressed especially for what they cost. As mentioned above the champion website has tons of vey useful info regarding brakes check it out.

 

[josh1981]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

So does anybody know. Will I be able to move the shock damper if there is no fluid in the master cylinder? I dont think they are connected. It is not hard to move right now at all, that is why I figured just replace the whole thing since it only costs about $20 more. plus I will have all new then. I figured I would just stick with the titan actuater also.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

So does anybody know. Will I be able to move the shock damper if there is no fluid in the master cylinder?

Yes...you definitely will be able to move everything with the master cylinder empty. In fact, it will be easier to move with it empty.

 

[tractoman]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

The dampener helps push the hitch forward when it is not pushing on the actuator rod and the pressure of the fluid also pushes it back. It is a little shock absorber and when I replaced mine the new one was much stiffer than the old one. When the system is working well, there is very little front to back movement of the hitch. Between the pressure of the fluid and the little shock dampener it wants to keep the brakes disengaged unless there is significant pressure pushing it forward, like a heavy boat coming at you. I also used freebacking brakes when I did mine and they seem to work fine for me.

 

[josh1981]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

The dampener helps push the hitch forward when it is not pushing on the actuator rod and the pressure of the fluid also pushes it back. It is a little shock absorber and when I replaced mine the new one was much stiffer than the old one. When the system is working well, there is very little front to back movement of the hitch. Between the pressure of the fluid and the little shock dampener it wants to keep the brakes disengaged unless there is significant pressure pushing it forward, like a heavy boat coming at you. I also used freebacking brakes when I did mine and they seem to work fine for me.

So do you think I should replace my damper or just the master cylinder?

Thanks again everybody for all your help.

 

[tractoman]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

I can't really tell from here if you need to replace it or not. I would get it and compare the two and return it if it is not necessary. It only takes about 5 minutes to replace it if you do. Or consider buying the entire actuator and use whatever parts are necessary.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

The dampener helps push the hitch forward when it is not pushing on the actuator rod.

The damper does nothing to help push the hitch forward. It is a shock absorber and nothing else. It helps get rid of some of the "clunk" when you brake or accelerate. It also slows down the actuation of the brakes so you don't get and oscillation of the trailer brakes applying when you stop.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

IMHO The Titan is a better product than the tie down.

 

[josh1981]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

Well I figured if I am going to replace parts then I would replces the damper also. And it that case why not just get a whole new one for $15 more. So that is what I will probably do. And I am going to go with the titan one should be really easy to just unbolt and bolt a new one on. I cant really think of a reason not to since it is so little more to get the whole thing new.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Repairing brakes... Couple questions

Good call! Those things suck to take apart - actually put together