Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

[ezmobee]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a larger Bayliner. Their poor repuation in runabouts didn't seem to carry to their larger boats. haulnazz15 is probably correct about the fit/finish/appointments of a Bayliner compared to other brands but I wouldn't be afraid to own one. I like to look at them every now and then on ebay, baltimore are CL and things like that. I was always surprised at how much boat $15-20k would get you (in a good way).

 

[Impactg]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

You can always have a company haul it for you. In my opinion, with items like boat of this size, and specialty autos; it's perfectly acceptable to drive halfway across the country to get the best deal. It may be harder to find a freshwater boat of this size in/around PA, I don't know for sure. I prefer just about any other brand of boat to a Bayliner, but that's just personal preference. The bayliners use more plastic on them, where Sea Ray and Wellcraft, etc use teak wood and stainless steel instead. They just last longer, and the owners tend to take better care of a boat that costs more.

Here's the boat we purchased in Michigan being dunked in good ole' Lake Raystown...

And it's a Bayliner... the third I've had on the lake. So, as you can guess, it's the boat I prefer to just about any other make. I do, however, raft up with about every other major OEM every weekend and they're all great boats for this type of boating (inland lake).

Oh, and I take immaculate care of my boats, just like everything else I purchase and take pride in. Making such a sweeping generalization about the owners of a specific brand of boats is ludicrous. It's like calling all Sea Ray owners snobs, which I know for a fact is not the case.

Here's my previous two Bays... a 1999 2352 Capri and a 2002 2655 Ciera... pardon their condition.

Anyway, we've been boating on this lake for 8 years, every weekend from the end of April until the end of October. It's just beautiful and the people are a real joy. Good luck!

 

[mysticowner]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

I agree you can't judge a boat's care by it's brand. I've seen some really nice boats (new) that were trash in 10 years.

My Glastron CV 23 looks like new. It had one refit on the upper deck upholstery since 1977, the cabin is original and like new. The boat is kept covered up when not in use, there's nothing like the sun beating down on a boat to ruin it.

My son and I went to Illinois last spring to pick up a boat identical to mine for him. He's a spoiled jet boater for life!

That's about as far as I would go for a boat, it was a long haul. We went out, spent the night and brought the boat back the next day. Fortunately it was exactly as described. He sent many detailed pictures so I pretty well knew he wasn't trying to hide anything.

Since I'm not looking for a newer boat I'll probably stick to the sea ray or Wellcraft type brands then. If the bayliners were made cheaper their life span is probably about up. Meaning in need of more repairs, there again depending on the care the owner gave it.

I do all my own mechanical work from building the engines to rebuilding the jets. If it doesn't need machined we do it in house. If I need special tools I don't mind spending the money on them. That's because as with my 1977 Glastron, when I buy it I'll make sure it's what I want and keep it!

I can allways pass them on to my other son. I think he's waiting for that!

It's gonna be a long time yet I hope ))

Do you know of any pit falls I should be watching for? If I go look at one what areas should I be keying on as far as the drive and steering? Where does the water usually hide if the windows leak etc? What's the best way to check the gimbal bearing etc?

How do the trim tabs and power trim work? Are they powered off a pump on the engine or 12V remote? If I look at one now it will be winterized and probably won't be able to start the engine will I?

Do they all have power steering or not on 1990 and earlier?

I don't plan on going over $15000. for this boat. I will only use it when we plan on spending a couple days at the lake. Single days will always be the jet.

Thank you for my education!

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

I think you misunderstood my comment about the Bayliners. It wasn't meant to be that Bayliners are crap, I just prefer most of the other brands from the mid80's to mid 90's vintage.

Impactg, I don't think you posting pictures of a 2000+ Bayliner is really going to add much to the conversation. If you want to go there, we'll post a pic of a Cruisers, Inc. of the same year next to it and see which one is "better". From what I've seen, the Bayliner Cierra-style boats from the late 80's always seem to be in much worse condition than the majority of the other boats of the SAME VINTAGE. Maybe it's because Bayliner some owners don't care about their boats, maybe it's shoddy worksmanship, maybe it's pure chance . . . I don't know, nor do I care. I think your new Bayliner looks great, and am sure it's on par with many others, but commenting about Bayliner's quality solely from your experiences with all 3 boats LESS than a decade old doesn't hold much water; we're talking about boats more than twice the age of your 1999 Bayliner.

It's about how well they hold up over time. Of course 90% of how well a boat holds up is due to owner care/maintenance. However, apparently most Bayliner owners don't bother with maintenance as much because almost every Bayliner I see from the '85-93 years is a complete hull full of rot and neglection. The other brands of the same years seem to have about a 50/50 shot of being acceptable. Why is that? Is it that so many more Bayliner owners simply quit caring about the maintenance, or is it that *maybe* the other boats just held up better as they aged?

Like I said, I'm not advocating to the OP that any brand is better than the other, go with whatever makes you happy. The Bayliner image of having poor worksmanship and cheap fittings came from somewhere, and it originated back in the 80's. I believe they have worked hard to fix that image. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[mysticowner]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

I think I understand what you mean. They are of a lesser original quality build but the ultimate test of time is the care they received. All things being equal the Sea Ray or Wellcraft should have held up better due to that quality differance in the beginning.

It's nice to look at the newer boats but I agree with you that they have changed so drastically since the mid eighty's. Looking at them won't do me any good in my quest of the perfect older boat )

So I think I'm looking for a 80 to 90 Sea Ray sundowner 268 with a big block and a bravo drive. Sound good?

What Wellcraft model would be equalivent? I haven't been around any of them.

If I find a nice Bayliner 2555 sundeck what price should I expect to see on it? Big block with trailer? Ball park? I would look at it with a bravo drive and big block. Did they come in that drive or where they all alpha?

What do you think that 1989 24 foot bayliner sundeck was really worth?
It really is in very nice shape but 5.7 engine alpha drive. Never rebuilt.

 

[Impactg]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

My point was that there is no correlation between boat model and whether the owner is willing or capable of taking care of it, which is what your statement implys... be it a mid-eighties Bayliner or a 2010. If I'd held onto either of those boats, they'd be in the same condition as the day I'd purchased them except for the inescapable wear of time.

Basically, the statement assumes that a person who purchases a particular brand of boat is lazy or incompetent. It's just a baseless comment...

Bash the brand is you see fit, but your bash was toward their owners which is personally insulting to me and many of my friends in a similar situation - some of which own much older (and well kept) Bayliners. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

Hi, Mystic- suggest you go to some of the manufacturers' web sites and look at archival materials.

Four Winns, Wellcraft, Sea Ray (maybe) and some others have archived brochures and specifications for past models. I haunted them all when I was shiopping and it gave me some real valuable points for comparison.

Good luck and good hunting!

 

[mysticowner]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

Point well made!

 

[JoLin]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

My point was that there is no correlation between boat model and whether the owner is willing or capable of taking care of it, which is what your statement implys... be it a mid-eighties Bayliner or a 2010. If I'd held onto either of those boats, they'd be in the same condition as the day I'd purchased them except for the inescapable wear of time.

Basically, the statement assumes that a person who purchases a particular brand of boat is lazy or incompetent. It's just a baseless comment...

Bash the brand is you see fit, but your bash was toward their owners which is personally insulting to me and many of my friends in a similar situation - some of which own much older (and well kept) Bayliners. That's the point I was trying to make.

Impact- please lighten up. Nobody wa bashing anybody. Fact is that Bayliners of the 70's and 80's didn't genrally have a good reputation for materials and build quality. In addition, as entry-level boats they TEND to be subjected to more than the average abuse and neglect.

OF COURSE, not all Bayliner owners abuse their boats.
OF COURSE, not every Bayliner from that period was poorly built.

A general observation is being made that choosing a Bayliner of that period warrants a little more attention. I always recommend a pre-purchase marine survey for ANY boat of that age, regardless of brand. I would not hesiate to buy a Bayliner that checked out well, but I'd sure as heck have it checked out stem to stern.

The 2452 Ciera / Ciera Classic happens to be one of my favorites in that size boat. Nicely thought out design. Was shopping for one, but my wife preferred the Chris Craft and I couldn't argue in terms of quality.

 

[Impactg]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to start an arguement. Just felt the need to clear the air in regards to impressions of we who own the boat brand. I have seen some beautiful Bayliners of that year range... and some crappy ones as well...

Truth was, I wanted to make myself available to the OP in regards to any questions he might have regarding the lake and the type of boating he was looking to do on that lake... should he have any questions regarding shipping to the lake and the logistics of actually getting it in the water (which can arise with out of state boat transported on a flatbed). There's only one location on the lake with a lift. Let me know if you have any questions Mysticowner.

 

[mysticowner]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

Hi, Mystic- suggest you go to some of the manufacturers' web sites and look at archival materials.

Four Winns, Wellcraft, Sea Ray (maybe) and some others have archived brochures and specifications for past models. I haunted them all when I was shiopping and it gave me some real valuable points for comparison.

Good luck and good hunting!

Thank you, I didn't know they did that.
Dave

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

Mystic/JoLin you have understood my point, and perhaps even voiced it more eloquently than I have. I intend no bashing toward Bayliner owners, just that the stigma that Bayliners fight came from that era, and can be seen in materials used. That only accounts for a small portion of the used boats' condition, the meticulous care of any boat will be the main deciding factor.

Mystic, the Wellcraft Antigua I believe is a popular model of that era/size. I believe Mark Twain boats even made a cruiser in that size/era, was of decent quality, butthey are few and far between. As well at MRK Twain no longer being in business anymore, but they made good boats.

 

[mike343]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

On most of the quality rants here and elsewhere, Glastron doesn't come off much better than Bayliner. Your experience is to the contrary. But on this site and others older boats "quality" has been reported as much more dependent on how the boat has been treated than what the original build "quality" was. That is, compare the upholstery on a 10 year old Cobalt left in the open as compared with a Tahoe in a garage.

Bays are lighter than Seas so you wouldn't want to take one to Bimini. But they are lighter to trailer. Also, the biggest worry with boats is engines--really no difference.

 

[rbh]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

Guys-
If you havent pulled one of those 26-30 monsters down the road and launched it every weekend let me tell ya... try it, then give this guy the low down.
rob

 

[mysticowner]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

That's the bright side of this.
#1. I build engines
#2 I have a parking spot about 1/2 mile from the launch beside a friends
house.
#3 We usually don't do weekends! My days off are through the week and
out there you just about own the place. It's wonderful, and no battle
to get around the dip sticks at the launch.

 

[mysticowner]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

On most of the quality rants here and elsewhere, Glastron doesn't come off much better than Bayliner. Your experience is to the contrary. But on this site and others older boats "quality" has been reported as much more dependent on how the boat has been treated than what the original build "quality" was. That is, compare the upholstery on a 10 year old Cobalt left in the open as compared with a Tahoe in a garage.

Bays are lighter than Seas so you wouldn't want to take one to Bimini. But they are lighter to trailer. Also, the biggest worry with boats is engines--really no difference.

I agree with you, I did have to replace the floor, and the sun exposed upholstery. It just plain wore out. The hull is fine along with the stringers. The wood didn't rot it just broke down. There was one soft spot under the anchors, (my fault)

I have the best upholstery material on now. We'll see If I get another 25 years out of that )

 

[26aftcab454]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

Hey Mistic-
I bought the boat your looking for 2 years ago and still love it. it is not for sale- paid $11,500.
1984 Wellcraft 26aft cabin- repowerd with a 1996 7.4Mercuiser(300hp) with BravoIII. has a genset-hotwater/HVAC/power winlass and a EZload roller trailer.
loaded with everything-GPS-LCD TV-fridge-stove-micro-head-you name it---it was in excellent shape for a 1984 model--not perfect but good & serviceable condition.
its perfect for a couple / small kids/ dogs overnite but kinda cramped 2 couples . for spending the day at the sandbar its fine with 8 people

It runs 43MPH WOT trim & tabs up but I mostly cruise at 3400-3800RPMs 26 to 28 MPH - I don't think I get much more than 1MPG but I do have a heavy throttle hand. It planes quick enough and cannot imagine having as much fun with a 5.7 260hp motor it was born with.
I keep it year round in the slip- it is a PITA to load without good experianced & sober help. My 2008 Silverado 6.0L-trl pkg -pulls it fine except it is 2 wheel drive and sometimes have traction issues on steep / wet ramps. With all the extras and fluids I think it weighs close to 7500lbs with trl.

 

[mysticowner]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

Sounds good, now let's keep our eyes peeled for mine!

I'm leaning toward waiting on spring so I can get a test ride. If I buy it now it's buyer beware.....

What do you think? Wait?

 

[26aftcab454]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

you have to at least take it for a couple hr test ride-offer to buy gas-i had to have a marine survey for insurance- they chg by the foot and think mine was around $350.

there are alot of people in such dire $$$ straights that you may find a great deal.

 

[rbh]

Re: Want to buy a cabin boat and need advise

FYI, I posted a video link in dockside chat under winter insanity relief, thats our 270 sundancer (10 ft on beam) with twin 260's/520hp taking off from a dead stop. These big boats need the power.
rob