No spark No Fire

[Jonezin]

Ok Im not getting any spark or fire on none of the coils. I have a 1988 Sea Ray serville with factory mercury 135 hp Outboard. Ser # B278681. How do I test the stater and trigger. The switch boxes look new..

Help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Laddies]

Re: No spark No Fire

Goto your PMs

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

Thanks so much for your time and effort, will let you know what I find as soon as I get some break from all the rain backyard is flooded

 

[knoell3]

Re: No spark No Fire

Ok Im not getting any spark or fire on none of the coils. I have a 1988 Sea Ray serville with factory mercury 135 hp Outboard. Ser # B278681. How do I test the stater and trigger. The switch boxes look new..

Help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope you wont take offense to me asking this, but is the kill switch (if you have one) in the correct position. The only reason I asked is because I overlooked this myself this past weeked on my boat.

Thanks,

Chris (up in Huntsville)

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

Humm, good question chirs. I'll go back over everything in the morning and update you guys.

I hit the lake up there pretty often.

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

Well found some of my problems, checked the kill switch and I found that someone somewhere put a second one in. *** backwards I may add. There is one built in the shifter and they added one, they cut the black and the black with yellow from the shifter. So from the shifter to the motor nothing was connected. I was only killing it self (hahahahaha)

My other problems are I have a ball of wires, its just a mess. I got the horn and the lights to work, the depth finder was hook into the starter position. Bilge pump not working. Didn't get to check the motor yet still working on the small stuff. Nothing is hook to the fuse box may put a new one in.

So I guess I'll pull the pump out tomorrow and see if its still good. Hopefully I'll be done under there tomorrow. But is cold !!!!!!!!!

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

new fuse box and bilge pump in, still wading through all the wires, now i don't have no lights or trim. Its to cold to be out there well see what the storm brings.

I did get a chance to look the motor over and there is a new stater,new choke but there's no trigger or button for the choke. Looks like they rebuilt the oil injector pump. New plugs amd the switch boxes look new. Didn't try to fire it still working on other stuff. Will try maybe Monday.

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

Ok I'm laying here about to fall and and thought hit me, just like that.
Does make sence to change the stater and not the trigger at the same time?
and cant forget the rectifier and regulator.

My thinking is the out put would be diffrent and maybe putting strain on the old parts, an i off the mark?

 

[achris]

Re: No spark No Fire

....Does make sense to change the stator and not the trigger at the same time?

Yes....

and cant forget the rectifier and regulator.

Why??? Ignition and charging systems are COMPLETELY separate and don't interact with each other at any level.

My thinking is the out put would be different and maybe putting strain on the old parts, am I off the mark?

Sorry to say, Yes, way off the mark....

Do you have a service manual, with a wiring diagram? If you have them use that as your primary diagnostic tool. Use a logical and methodical approach, and don't be worried about ruling certain things out, that's actually part of what makes a good tech.

Chris.............

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

Yes....

explain, they work hand in hand, you wouldnt only by 1 shoe if the soul fell off one.



Why??? Ignition and charging systems are COMPLETELY separate and don't interact with each other at any level.

Ok



Sorry to say, Yes, way off the mark....

Do you have a service manual, with a wiring diagram? If you have them use that as your primary diagnostic tool. Use a logical and methodical approach, and don't be worried about ruling certain things out, that's actually part of what makes a good tech.


No I dont have one just running off my littel experience and the advise i get here
Chris.............

explain, they work hand in hand, you wouldnt only by 1 shoe if the soul fell off one.

No I dont have one just running off my littel experience and the advise i get here

 

[achris]

Re: No spark No Fire

They may work 'hand-in-hand', but they don't both need to be replaced at the same time if only one of them fails. Do you replace the all fuses in your house when a light bulb blows?

The stator produces a high voltage (around 400) for the switchboxes to use the fire the coils. The trigger produces a small voltage (2 to 4) that the switch boxes use as the signal as to when to fire the coils.

I will post up the wiring diagram and diagnostic procedure for you to follow, but tomorrow, it late and my wife's birthday.....

Chris..........

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

Point taken, thanks for the Enlightenment (no pun)
I have always been advised to replace both at the same time or you'll be taking it apart again soon.
I'm starting to not like outboards again, my last one was an inboard I can work on those.

Well enjoy the Wife's Day, thanks for the help

Snowing like cats and dogs here, but I still climb in and was cleaning up the rest of that rat nest. I must have cut something because now I'm not getting trim navigation lights or crank on the key. I'll back track it later its cold....... the boat wont fit in my shop.

Terrence

 

[achris]

Re: No spark No Fire

Good morning Terrence,

Hope you slept well.... I have a bunch of drawings for you... The wiring diagram is from the service manual and the block diagram and test procedures are from the Merc service school training manual....

From the diagrams you'll see that the 2 systems (cylinders 1,3,5 and cylinders 2,4,6) are only common at the "kill circuit", the stop switch (ignition switch) and mercury tilt switch. My first test would be to disconnect the black/yellow wire from BOTH switchboxes and see if you have spark.

The best advise I can give you right now is to separate the engine electrical system from the 'boat' electrical system, and keep them separate. The only thing that should be common is the battery switch. The engine electrics should consist of the control box, trim system and engine instruments ONLY! Things like nav lights, sounders,radio/s, GPS, bilge pumps and the like should be run from a separate fuse panel which is powered by separate power wires run directly from the battery switch.

Enjoy....

P.S. I bet the guy who told you to replace both sold parts, right?

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

Thanks so much Chris, I'm going to be busy this weekend. I'm so ready for the water.
I have been separating the two systems at the dash, I put a new fuse box in so now I have 2, Like I said before it was just a rat nest of wires. They put in a kill switch and a depth finder all *** backwards I guess thats how they got all jacked up. I have to find the wire that I cut or disconnected at least I know that part isnt something major. I'm so silly some times it has a push key choke, duh.

How was the wife's Birthday?
Thanks again, they guy who told me that was an old friend of my dads, to me he was the GOD of boats. I seen him make stuff work that I would've thrown to the scrap pile in a blink of an eye. He's in the upper room now.

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

Talking about a ding dong moment, out messing with the boat, cant figure out why I don't have no trim or or crank key any more. so i got my 5 yr old out with me. I'm getting pissed so she says "daddy did you check the battery?" I'm thinking what she know I just charged the battery last week. I go on about my business checking and checking. So she says, "daddy if i was you I'll check the battery, i'm sure its the battery" so i say "why" she reply's "you don't have no power, you said the power comes from the battery"

To get her to leave me along about this battery I show it to her, I tell her this I is how you check your battery with a meter. of course she says why, i tell her to see how many volts it has and explain the whole volts thing to her. I put the meter on, and it says 4. Dang why didnt I check that before?

I told her she was right on the mark and what would I do without her, she is so proud of herself. She gets to drive when we go out

 

[achris]

Re: No spark No Fire

Someone once said never work with children or animals.... Why does your battery only have 4 volts in it? Something draining it?

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

I don't know whats killing it, just thought maybe I left the key on and the cold. Haven't ran the motor, and i don't have a maintainer. But Ill keep an watch on it.

 

[achris]

Re: No spark No Fire

I don't know whats killing it, just thought maybe I left the key on and the cold. Haven't ran the motor, and i don't have a maintainer. But Ill keep an watch on it.

Even with the key in the 'ON' position the only things that would be powered are the engine instruments. As far as the engine is concerned all that has happened is you have removed the ground from the switchboxes. The engine does not use any power at all. I would start looking for a power drain somewhere. Do you have a multimeter with a 10 amp range? If so, disconnect the positive lead from the battery (after you've charged it up) and put the meter in line. Find what's drawing power....

 

[Jonezin]

Re: No spark No Fire

I'm still separating the motor from the non motor stuff, I just punt the new fuse box in. everything had power with the key in the off position. So I'm still hunting wires, they have been cut here and there. what should be is not. And with this cold I cant get much done, then you add 8 kids on top of that with no school til Tuesday I'm lucky to just look at the thing.

But will do what you suggest, I'm going to try tomorrow. Got it on charge now. hey can you get a DVA meter at auto zone on a loner? you are a wealth of info I like you.

"Things like nav lights, sounders,radio/s, GPS, bilge pumps and the like should be run from a separate fuse panel which is powered by separate power wires run directly from the battery switch."

do you mean straight from the battery or from the on switch key, my plan was running it straight from the battery to the 2nd fuse box. I don't have a accessory on my switch key, I got on and crank. I was going to put a kill switch between that in case I need to kill all of that if need be.

 

[achris]

Re: No spark No Fire

...do you mean straight from the battery or from the on switch key, my plan was running it straight from the battery to the 2nd fuse box. I don't have a accessory on my switch key, I got on and crank. I was going to put a kill switch between that in case I need to kill all of that if need be.

I like to run 2 batteries in a boat.. Can't get out and push

When you have 2 batteries you should also have a battery isolation switch. Something like this...

They have 4 positions, 'OFF', '1', '2', 'BOTH'. Sort of self-explanatory.

On the back you will see 3 terminals, '1', '2', 'COMMON'. Connect battery #1 to '1', Battery #2 to '2', and the engine cable and the accessories cable (the one you'll be running up to the fuse panel/s) the to 'COMMON' terminal.

All this gives you the flexibility of a 2 battery system and the ability to isolate the batteries, not only from the load, but completely. When I set up battery systems this is the only system I use. I also run the accessories power wires to a red and a black terminal block. Like these...

All electrics that are not part of the engine manufacturers package get routed through these terminal blocks, no exceptions!

DVA meter isn't bought at a auto shop, they are the exclusive domain of outboards. give me a couple of days and I will design a simple circuit using components you can buy at any Tandy. And it won't cost you any more than about $5

Chris...........