Elgin 2.5 lower unit removal

[F_R]

Re: Elgin 2.5 lower unit removal

FR,

And to add to machinists reply...as its a very good point based on my expereince last night....he states somewhere, that when you do access that nut, with the long screwdriver, to gently drive the screw driver down into the slot with a small hammer and make sure the driver is well seated into that nut...I can vouch as its fresh, that is a very tight narrow slot. Luckily I did happen to have the proper size driver to not booger it up and get it out.

where was it that you were you able to obtain the seals?

Here we go again, it has been awhile. As I recall, the original seals were crap. Just square cut rubber washers. I believe I used a quad ring on the drive shaft and machined the prop shaft cavity to accept a "real" seal. But don't take this statement as gospel. I should have taken notes.

 

[the machinist]

Re: Elgin 2.5 lower unit removal

F_R On this latest motor there was a retainer groove on the gearcase input shaft for the drive gear, but no retainer snap as in my other running motor. You do not have to remove this gear, mearly allow it to slide free on the shaft. You do need to remove the snap ring if you want to get the water pump off the gearcase.

I found seals that should fit in MSC catalog. They are on order & should be in Tuesday. I agree the old ones were not that good, even O-Rings would duplicate or be better than the originals.

I finally got the gearbox & water pump off the restoration motor. Had to drill out the water pump retainer screw. Even after everything was ready to go, the 1/4" threaded rod apparently was corroded inside the leg enough that it took pounding on the exposed upper drivedshaft to drive things down, (there is enough clearance inside & above the water pump to allow the driveshaft coupler to pass thru. It ruined both upper & lower water pump end caps in the process however. Good thing I have another sample to copy.

I have now updated my restoration article.

 

[mkc1962]

Re: Elgin 2.5 lower unit removal

FR,

Thought about doing the same. But when you mentioned doing your seals, I thought maybe you had found a source that LeeRoy did not know of. Right now, Waiting to hear the outcome of the ones he has arriving soon.

LeeRoy,

same happened to me tonight when attempting to get my water pump out. That is, I messed up atleast the bottom cover. Not bad enough I cant use for a pattern but surely unable to use. Pump cavity and upper cover are still stuck in the leg, now soaking. The end cap Looks like same material as the Vane (bakelite or similar), just 1/4" thick instead of 1/8". What are your plans for replacing yours? 1/4" Delrin?

Looks like the 1/8" circuit board I found will work perfect for a new pump vane.

 

[the machinist]

Re: Elgin 2.5 lower unit removal

Today I made both top & bottom water pump end caps out of a phenolic left over from another project. It was hard to get the pin holes lined up even by using the old caps which were broken, as a pattern. Thes pins are not the same from the outside of dia & not in any order as to placing that can be set up using coordinates to drill. And since they are around a eccentric hole, nothing to measure from.

The bottom cap came out great but the top not so good so I reamed them enough to get the shaft to rotate easier. (May decide to make another). Now to get the one broken off cap screw out & drill the screw holes in the caps.

If you need a new lower end cap, (even an upper) I may be able to find another extra piece of material. I would not attempt to drill the pin & screw holes however.

I can see why you ruined the lower cap as that is all there is when pressure is applied trying to force things down & if the body is stuck something has to give which is the bottom cap.

What I used was 1" thick & 3" dia, that was a cut out of a 1" X 6" X 6" to accept a 16 oz propane bottle lantern stand I made for night clam digging & just put it in the lathe & turned down, bored out to .610 & cut off.

If the body & upper unit are still stuck, you might have to put the upper driveshaft in & onto the water pump spline if you have not taken it out. Use it to drive the water pump housing out the bottom. There is enough of a hole inside the leg for the driveshaft coupler to pass thru, but you may ruin the upper cap like I did. However with the gearcase off there should only be the resistance of the pump body inside the lower leg matching hole. The upper cap is like the lower except it has a protruding upper neck of about .200 apparently that helps as a upper alignment bearing. It appears that this upper cap needs to be pretty close vertical dimensions to facilitate the pump assembly going back in the hole enough to allow the gearcase to be bolted on without binding.

 

[mkc1962]

Re: Elgin 2.5 lower unit removal

It was hard to get the pin holes lined up even by using the old caps which were broken, as a pattern. Thes pins are not the same from the outside of dia & not in any order as to placing that can be set up using coordinates to drill. And since they are around a eccentric hole, nothing to measure from.

I had a similar problem a few years back when making a diaphram for a Mercedes benz fuel regulator. I used Tissue paper to stencil a pattern off of the old one, then used that stencil as an overlay on the new stock...worked for me...

If you need a new lower end cap, (even an upper) I may be able to find another extra piece of material. I would not attempt to drill the pin & screw holes however.

How about a proposed trading of efforts? I just so happen to stumble onto some, Discontinued Rustoleum Satin Spruce pine. Which you mentioned you were not able to obtain out your way. And I have planty of that 1/8" circuit board to share. Let me make sure I can still get it (the paint)(it was there last week). I'll send you a can of the paint and enough of the 1/8" board stock for several vanes. You in turn do me a set of caps top, and bottom. Sound fair?

I can see why you ruined the lower cap as that is all there is when pressure is applied trying to force things down & if the body is stuck something has to give which is the bottom cap.

Ahhh my fault....if I hadnt been tired that eve I would have taken the time to remove the bottom cap, save it and try driving the top and pump body out with a wooden dowel.

 

[the machinist]

Re: Elgin 2.5 lower unit removal

Trade sounds fine with me.

I got the seals in today & they fit fine. The below copied off my article

Replacement prop shaft seals #19118 (1/8" X 1/2" ID X 3/4") in the illustration below can be found at MSC Industrial Supply http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm #7 50886 00240 6. They are made by Dictomatik trade initials TCM #05071M (replaces 8792S) at a price of about $6.00, (not exactly sure as the bill hasn't come in yet). This seal may not be designed specifically as a rotating shaft seal but more of a lineal shaft seal, but there is not much to choose from here. Before I found this seal, 3 possible substitutes came to mind. (#1) Neoprene O-Ring in size 1/8" X 1/2" X 3/4", (#2) 3/32" Teflon stem packing from a plumbing supply store, (#3) Graphite impregnated rope water pump shaft packing. These replacements would absolutely need the rear retainer ring pressed into place. The packing would have to be wrapped around the shaft & tamped solidly into place creating a solid seal surface. The good thing about this rear seal if a packing material is used, since it is not an internal seal, the prop can be pulled off & the seal easily replaced.

The upper shaft seal #18118 uses a smaller shaft (1/8" X 7/16" X 3/4") & this seal is still commonly available, National #340847 at a price of about $6.00.

 

[the machinist]

Re: Elgin 2.5 lower unit removal

The wife came in and inturrupted me so I posted the above twice, so changed this one.

Trade sounds fine with me, I will send a e-mail to you for address & get on making another set of parts.

 

[mkc1962]

Re: Elgin 2.5 lower unit removal

Thanks for the update on the seal info, and glad to hear that you think they will work. I'll scope out ordering me some. I'll Look for your email, at the address I provided earlier up in this thread for our trade. Was able to aquire 2 cans. One for each of us. Surely one can will be more than enough per engine? For mine I also still have a pint of zinc chromate primer left over from my days of working at the local marina.

Hmmm...just saw where you emailed me on the 13th, and just showed in my que today...darn Yahoo...always problems...reply more there