New 470 Mercruiser Owner

[85imperial]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

I'm also a new 470 owner joining the club. 1 Engine, serial # B517271, 165hp. Have a 170hp in the boat #A634829, presently that's locked up. Also ave another C engine for extra parts. Have alternator converson kit and (2) 4" heat exchanger that came with the boat to solve know issues, hope there's no more than that to deal with.(lol) Can I definetly order Ford 460 rings and cam bearings? or do I have to go to marine supply for the "Merc" parts. I ordered a set of rings and rod bearings thinking I was getting the entine set ye right for only 1 piston ! Tore down "B" engine to rebuild, #4 cyl had bad wrist pin. Cleaned all the others and they're in very good shape. Rings and bearings look good but figure since I'm down there might as well replace but do I have to? Just bought boat in hopes to swap out and hit the water for the summer. Heard good & bad about these engines, tring to stay optomistic, plan to make this one purrr.

 

[pcmpete]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

You got plenty of parts to get one good running 470.
I still gotta get the 4" heat exchanger and alternator conversion. But after I do, mine should run as good as any other motor.
Good luck with the 470's.

Yeah most times the rings are priced per piston.

The 470 reminds me of the old Jaguar E-type sports car, when they run they are good, but if you don't maintain it and look after it, you will be sorry.

 

[ericcarr2000]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

I just purchased a remanufactured 3.7 from tidewater machine down in norfolk, converted the ignition over to electronic, converted the charging from that outdated stator and voltage regulator to the alternator conversion kit from e-bay for $270.00, oh yeah, the ignition cost me $380.00. The thing runs like a champ, I do recommend on you getting the 4inch heat exchanger if yours has the 3 inch.
All in all, I love my set up, lots of power and pretty good on fuel..

 

[gettin'even]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

I'm also a new 470 owner joining the club. 1 Engine, serial # B517271, 165hp. Have a 170hp in the boat #A634829, presently that's locked up. Also ave another C engine for extra parts. Have alternator converson kit and (2) 4" heat exchanger that came with the boat to solve know issues, hope there's no more than that to deal with.(lol) Can I definetly order Ford 460 rings and cam bearings? or do I have to go to marine supply for the "Merc" parts. I ordered a set of rings and rod bearings thinking I was getting the entine set ye right for only 1 piston ! Tore down "B" engine to rebuild, #4 cyl had bad wrist pin. Cleaned all the others and they're in very good shape. Rings and bearings look good but figure since I'm down there might as well replace but do I have to? Just bought boat in hopes to swap out and hit the water for the summer. Heard good & bad about these engines, tring to stay optomistic, plan to make this one purrr.

Yup on the rings...standard Ford 460. No on the cam bearings..there aren't any. The cam rides directly on the block. I believe the block can be machined to accept cam bearings if the block is worn/damaged.
I also noticed an oem Ford engineering # on the connecting rods when I rebuilt mine. The rotating assembly is all off-the-shelf Blue Oval.

 

[achris]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

This from the service manual... The bearing part number was 23-67484T (NLA!)

 

[85imperial]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

gettin'even thanks I ment to say ROD bearings. Cam looks good. Plan on replacing rod bearings and rings, not sure if I have to but since I'm down there. 'C' engine are bad but 'B' engine look good no real sign of ware. Ford parts seem to be a little cheeper than from the marine store. Bought a set for $14 rod bearings and got A set for 1 rod. Same with rings A set for 1 piston $33.

 

[pcmpete]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

White my head is at the machine shop I started looking at the 470's outdrive.
After a bit of reading and watching some videos I think that my outdrive may have an Alpha 1 lower end. Can anyone confirm this from the photo below?
If so, what impeller kit should would fit with the pre-alpha upper and Alpha 1 lower?

Thanks

 

[achris]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

Unless you're replacing the water pump base, all the other parts are the same for MC-1, R, MR, and Alpha One... When you split the leg, have a look at the top of the drive shaft. If it has a pre-load pin, it's an R. If it doesn't have the pin, then it's an MR or Alpha One...

Chris........

 

[pcmpete]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

Today was a productive day, hopefully.
I pulled the heat exchanger off the motor completely to inspect and flush, only to find 2 fins of an impeller trapped in the raw water input chamber of the heat exchanger. So I started looking for the other parts. Started with the regulator tube working my way thru the system. But I stopped looking when I found out that the exhaust shutter flapper thingy was missing, so now I had to hunt down impeller parts and now shutters parts. Couldn't find anything else. So I started thinking:

Maybe the Motor has had a dry run, melted the impeller, now with lack of water flow and being blocked in the heat exchanger have have caused an overheat, plus melted the shutters.

With no shutters and this boat having a wake tower fitted I can only imagine that the PO did a lot of sudden stops (to pick up downed skier/boarder) allowing bucket lots of lake water into the engine.

Your thoughts please..............

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

Raw water impeller fragments have been responsible for many an over heat!

If you have an oil cooler, they frequently congregate there......if you have closed cooling and no oil cooler they'll sometimes make it into the heat exchanger. In either case, they restric flow through the heat exchanger and can cause a gradual overheat.

Since it also limits the flow into the exhaust elbow(s) it will wreak havoc on the shutter(s) and other rubber parts in the exhaust system since they're completly cooled by water flow from the exhaust elbow(s)


Sometimes people replace the raw water pump impeller and don't go looking for the fragments from a previous failure! Gotta get back on the water you know!!!

 

[pcmpete]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

I went on a mission tonight looking for the rest of the impeller, found 3 more vanes in the raw water input housing in the gimbal, and while looking for more from the rubber hose that connects to the transom plate I was cleaning the transom plate and noticed that one of mounting bolts was loose, so I tried to tightened it only to see the fiberglass on the transom flex

To cut a long story short, I will be removing the transom plate, and the rest of the outdrive on the outside of the boat and building a new transom.

I have done this before, but this one should be easier as it only approx 23" x 25".
Plus, will give me a better chance of replacing bellows, switches, cables etc... while I have the gimbal housing off the hull.

Better finding the bad transom now rather than later..... :redface:

A few questions about before I head of to the restoration forums

1. Can the transom plate to removed with nearly everything still attached, or is it better in the long run to just remove everything?

2. Can the transom shield be removed with the gimbal housing still attached?


Thanks

 

[stonyloam]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

Hi pete: I think what you are calling the transom shield is the gimbal housing. The terminology can be a little confusing, so here is what Mercruiser calls things. With the outdrive off from outside to inside, you have the BELLHOUSING, (that the outdrive attaches to, moves up and down), then the GIMBAL RING (moves side to side), then the GIMBAL HOUSING (holds the pivots for the ring and the gimbal bearing) and on the inside is the TRANSOM PLATE. Download the "transom assembly major", manual from adults only. You would prpbably want to remove the bellhousing, because you need to disconnect the shift cable, the trim sensor, and limit wires, and water tube, and probably just make things easier to get at. You do not have to remove the gimbal ring. Good luck.

 

[achris]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

He has the manuals on DVD....

If the transom is soft and you want to beef it up, then you'll need to remove (in order) the exhaust pipe, the steering cable, the hydraulic hoses, the inner transom plate. Then the gimbal housing (complete with the above mentioned gimbal ring, bell housing and trim rams).

If you plan on replacing the lower shift cable, bellows and gimbal bearing, easier to do them BEFORE you pull the gimbal housing off the boat. You'll need the hinge pin tool for that. If you want the trim gauge to work have a really good look at the sender and its wires too. If you plan on replacing them, do it while you're doing the other work.

Something else to look at is the top shaft for the gimbal ring. There are 3 flavours of them, known as 'spline-spline', 'square-spline' and 'square-square'. If there is any movement between the shaft and the gimbal ring or the shaft and the steering lever that you can't eliminate by tightening the clamp bolts (if you have them) then the gimbal ring needs to be replaced, complete with a new shaft, which will be the square-square type.

Cheers,

Chris....

 

[pcmpete]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

Sorry about the terminology, I am used to the Volvo outdrive and they call the outside part that fits to the hull the Transom Shield and the inner part the bellhousing.
Yeah, I have all the manuals thanks to AChris

Hi pete: I think what you are calling the transom shield is the gimbal housing. The terminology can be a little confusing, so here is what Mercruiser calls things. With the outdrive off from outside to inside, you have the BELLHOUSING, (that the outdrive attaches to, moves up and down), then the GIMBAL RING (moves side to side), then the GIMBAL HOUSING (holds the pivots for the ring and the gimbal bearing) and on the inside is the TRANSOM PLATE. Download the "transom assembly major", manual from adults only. You would prpbably want to remove the bellhousing, because you need to disconnect the shift cable, the trim sensor, and limit wires, and water tube, and probably just make things easier to get at. You do not have to remove the gimbal ring. Good luck.

 

[badkins50]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

Hi Pete, well I'm glad to see you started ignoring the 470 haters. I as well bought mine without knowing anything about it, but as you found out you learn very quickly. I had to rebuild my outdrive impeller assembly and go searching for broken rubber pieces (I have a couple pics in my album). Once you get it up and running it will be all worth it. I would agree, upgrade the alternator and heat exchanger though. I did and do not regret spending the money at all. Good Luck.

 

[pcmpete]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

I don't mind haters, they are just angry people who let the 470 get the better of them They throw the towel in too easy.
But I wonder how many of the 470 haters have actually owned a 470, or are they just jumping on the band wagon, to stay in with the cool kids

This time of year when people will be wondering why their non-470 engine has a cracked block due to it not being properly winterized. With the 470 it is a case of "better the devil you know"

Hi Pete, well I'm glad to see you started ignoring the 470 haters. I as well bought mine without knowing anything about it, but as you found out you learn very quickly. I had to rebuild my outdrive impeller assembly and go searching for broken rubber pieces (I have a couple pics in my album). Once you get it up and running it will be all worth it. I would agree, upgrade the alternator and heat exchanger though. I did and do not regret spending the money at all. Good Luck.

 

[pcmpete]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

He has the manuals on DVD....

If the transom is soft and you want to beef it up, then you'll need to remove (in order) the exhaust pipe, the steering cable, the hydraulic hoses, the inner transom plate. Then the gimbal housing (complete with the above mentioned gimbal ring, bell housing and trim rams).

Cool, I have the exhaust pipe and steering already off.

you plan on replacing the lower shift cable, bellows and gimbal bearing, easier to do them BEFORE you pull the gimbal housing off the boat. You'll need the hinge pin tool for that. If you want the trim gauge to work have a really good look at the sender and its wires too. If you plan on replacing them, do it while you're doing the other work.

I thought about that, I will change them when I put the gimbal housing back on the new transom. Only because by the time I get the replacement parts delivered I could have the old transom out. I don't like waiting

Something else to look at is the top shaft for the gimbal ring. There are 3 flavours of them, known as 'spline-spline', 'square-spline' and 'square-square'. If there is any movement between the shaft and the gimbal ring or the shaft and the steering lever that you can't eliminate by tightening the clamp bolts (if you have them) then the gimbal ring needs to be replaced, complete with a new shaft, which will be the square-square type.

Thanks for the tips Chris, I will check the top shaft, and any thing else that moves.



Cheers,

Chris....[/QUOTE]

 

[stonyloam]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

Agree, you are probably better off pressing out the old gimbal baring with the gimbal housing off rather than pounding on it with a seven pound slide hammer with a soft transom. With the gimbal housing off, it would be a good time to replace the gimbal ring pivot pin bearings and seals. Should be easy with housing off (no holes to drill), Pain with it on. Major transom manual shows how.

 

[jstaguy24]

Re: New 470 Mercruiser Owner

I am also a new 470 mercruiser owner. I purchased an 81 silverline with similar symptoms to what you have posted. My motor was apart when I picked up my boat. I had rust in one cylinder and water in the oil. I honed the cylinder and replaced all gaskets from the head up. Dumped the old gas from the tank and replaced the fuel filter. also replaced the water pump in the outdrive it had nothing left on the impellar. Got it all back together put in some fresh fluids and the motor started right up. After some run time I found I am leaking antifreeze from the weephole on the pump so now I guess I will be doing the cam seals and ezsleeves next. I do have the 4 inch heat exchanger and alternator conversion kit. still have some work to do but I think I will be happy with it once im done.