Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

stlkski

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I have a 1997 Mercury 90 HP 2 stroke. I would like to get rid of the bulb pump, and mount an electric fuel pump between the tank and the motor, right close to the tank. (Cannot have the fuel pump too high above the tank; it will not pull that high if it is dry). My question is this.... Would this somehow screw up the oil delivery because normally the fuel pump is above the oil delivery unit and is sucking gas up from that point. If I mount the pump upstream of the oil delivery device, the gas is being pushed "uphill" so to speak at that point. I am basically worried that the pressure in the line at the oil deleivery port would somehow be changed, and the oil delivery would be lower. Anybody know if this an OK thing to do? thanks
 

jerryjerry05

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

No it's not a good idea,the pressure can cause damage to the fuel pump on the motor.If you put in one it would need a $100-150 coast guard approved low pressure pump.
Just not a good idea.Just another thing to go wrong in the system.J
 

stlkski

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I would remove the diaphram fuel pump. The electric fuel pump would be a low pressure model.
 

verado7

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

you could do it -as long you remove the diaphram pump - but why ?
 

sschefer

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

Yes you can do it. No, you shouldn't do it.

As for coast guard approval... Yes they do make pumps that are Coast Guard approved.

Why you should not do it -

The stock pump is a puller and is pulse operated via pulse signals sent to it by the crankcase. The diaphram pump produces progressively higher pressure and volume as engine RPM increases. The diaphram, pulse tubing size, carb jets and passages are all designed to work with this configuration to give precisely the right amount of fuel to the engine.

An electric fuel pump pushes a constant volume and pressure to the carbs often overpowering the needles and seats. The pressure, even at 3 or 4 lbs forces more fuel into the engine at lower rpms than is needed. The results can often be seen as hard starting, flood starting, backfires, rough idle and the need for excessive intial advance.

The pusher style pumps also have limitations as to lift. I've found that a Holley Red Marine rated at 5-7 lbs barely supplies 3 lbs to the engine when deployed with a below deck tank. 3lbs is still too much at idle or for starting.

Imagine that under normal conditions, you squeeze the bulb then go hit the choke. The bulb looses some pressure and the right amount of fuel flows to correctly enrichen the enging for a cold start.

Now imagine a constant 3-4 lbs of pressure from the electric pump and hitting the choke and blasting a ton of fuel into the engine.

If you try to use a pressure regulator you can limit the pressure and make it start and idle decent but that regulator has no way of sensing the need of the engine and when your demand goes up at higher RPM's you'll lean the engine out and burn a piston.

So you are now obviously thinking this isn't such a good idea..... But wait, there is an approved Merc method. That method is to use a high volume low pressure pump.

The pump is installed in the following manner:
Main tank fuel line ->> 3/8" inline fuel filter ->> 2lb high volume fuel pump ->> Fuel/Water separating filter ->> Stock Pulse Fuel pump -->> Inline fuel filter -->> Carbs.

The draw back to this is that all these filters create way to many trouble spots. I've also never found a pump that was rated at 2lbs with anything more the 1/4" outlets so the volume is not sufficient and the final stick in the mud is that all these low pressure pumps are thumpers, noisy as heck and must be mounted vertically.

Still think an electric fuel pump would be easier than a couple early morning squeezes..... Yeah, didn't think so.... :)

Just to qualify all this, you'll find other posts of mine where I sing the praises of an electric fuel pump. If I could remember where they all are, I'd go back an put a big red X through them.
 

j_martin

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

All of the fuel delivered to the carbs is metered by the needle valve and float. Pretty much anything from 1 to about 6 lbs of fuel pressure will properly run the engine under all conditions. 5 lbs continuous would be almost ideal. If it causes rich conditions at idle, you have a float/needle valve problem.

The enricher valve dumps fuel through small lines behind the throttle plates of at least the bottom 2 carbs, and sometimes all three. It gets the fuel by gravity from the top carb's float chamber. An electric fuel pump would refill it.

Long story short, it doesn't change anything when cranking. If you press the "choke" switch before start, it may shorten the ideal timing a bit, but otherwise is no big deal. The only caveat is if you have faulty carburetors, they will be found out. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

An electric fuel pump could be considered an improvement, especially if it's inconvenient to squeeze the primer bulb. With marine approved components, it's neither dangerous or undesirable, only expensive. Most would consider it excessive engineering, but it's your boat.

One engineering item is that you should modify your lanyard kill switch to kill the fuel pump if it's operated. There's multiple ways to do that, and diagrams all over the web for it. Probably the simplest is to use a double throw switch that grounds the fuel pump for operation, and the kill circuit to stop.

my 02
John
 

sschefer

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

John, I woud have to agree except after 5 different carb sets all setup correctly and 5 different types of electric pumps on two different engines I finally had to call running strictly electric on a stock motor as not a good idea.

If you want, PM me and we can talk about what I think I've discovered.
 

stlkski

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

Sounds like we have a friendly disagreement here on whether this is a good idea. Before I flip a coin to decide, I still do not have an answer to my question on the oil injection. My concern is this..... The stock diaphram fuel pump is "downstream" of the oil injector. In other words, it is sucking gas downstream of the oil injection port. The electric fuel pump would be upstream of the oil injection port. So... with the electric pump, there will be 4 psi or whatever pressure right at the oil injection port. With the stock setup, there is (negative?) pressure at the port, so isn't there a potential serious issue with stopping the oil injection rate? I guess it depends on how the oil injection works. If it is sufficient pressure, I assume it won't matter if it's 4 psi or zero psi, right? Thanks for the replies!
 

Lone Duck

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

Not to mention if you develop a leak in the lines you pump your fuel into the bilge.
 

Silvertip

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

The kill switch is NOT the way to kill a fuel pump on a carbed two stroke because it operates backward from how the pump is powered and it does not pass 12 volts either. It is in the magneto system. While it may sound logical to use an electric fuel pump it is very dangerous to install one on an outboard unless you create an automatic engine stopped/key on (emergency) system which is the way factory installed electrics are configured. Look at it this way. Should you have a fuel leak in the system (anywhere) and the engine dies followed by a fire, or if there is simply a fuel leak and the engine dies, the fuel pump continues to run therefore continuing to fill the boat with fuel. Few boaters in an emergency will have the forethought to turn the key off since the engine is already dead. On an I/O or the new EFI/DFI outboards with electric pumps, the ECM knows whether or not the engine is running and will shut down the pump if the engine is not running. On an outboard with no ECM, there is no way to automatically disconnect power to the pump. Yes - you can install a low pressure switch in the water jacket so if the engine dies, the water pressure drops which kills the pump. You then need a START relay system to allow the pump to run when cranking as there will be no water pressure until the engine starts. Without such a system you are flirting with disaster. Besides -- there is nothing more reliable and simple as the diaphram pump you currently have. And in a pinch your boating friends can take turns squeezing the primer bulb to keep you going until back to shore should that diaphram pump fail.
 

j_martin

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

The kill switch is NOT the way to kill a fuel pump on a carbed two stroke because it operates backward from how the pump is powered and it does not pass 12 volts either. It is in the magneto system. While it may sound logical to use an electric fuel pump it is very dangerous to install one on an outboard unless you create an automatic engine stopped/key on (emergency) system which is the way factory installed electrics are configured. Look at it this way. Should you have a fuel leak in the system (anywhere) and the engine dies followed by a fire, or if there is simply a fuel leak and the engine dies, the fuel pump continues to run therefore continuing to fill the boat with fuel. Few boaters in an emergency will have the forethought to turn the key off since the engine is already dead. On an I/O or the new EFI/DFI outboards with electric pumps, the ECM knows whether or not the engine is running and will shut down the pump if the engine is not running. On an outboard with no ECM, there is no way to automatically disconnect power to the pump. Yes - you can install a low pressure switch in the water jacket so if the engine dies, the water pressure drops which kills the pump. You then need a START relay system to allow the pump to run when cranking as there will be no water pressure until the engine starts. Without such a system you are flirting with disaster. Besides -- there is nothing more reliable and simple as the diaphram pump you currently have. And in a pinch your boating friends can take turns squeezing the primer bulb to keep you going until back to shore should that diaphram pump fail.


You can either set up a 2PDT kill switch, where the normally open contacts of side 1 kill the ignition, and the normally closed contacts of side 2 power the fuel pump.

OR

You can do it with a SPDT switch by wiring the wiper to ground, the NO contact to ignition, and the NC contact to the fuel pump. 12 V power (through a relay) goes to the other side of the fuel pump.

Either way works fine.

Some installations have a long, or high draw for the fuel that the pulse pump won't pull reliably, so electric fuel pump delivery is not uncommon, unworkable, or unreasonably unsafe at all.

A low water pressure switch, with a starter circuit override would not be either hard to configure or unreliable. Usually, though, if the engine quits the owner has the moxy to shut the ignition off.

my 02
John
 

stlkski

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

The way I would do it is a relay that is energized by the charging circuit and the starter solenoid. Two diodes, anode one from voltage regulator output, anode two from starter solenoid. Engine dies, no chargy no solenoidy, no pumping. No kill switch needed.....
 

sschefer

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Re: Electric fuel pump at tank for 90 merc? Possible?

As I said before, if you run an electric. According to the Q/A at Mercury Marine, you can do so in conjunction with the stock fuel pump but the pump should be no stronger than 2lbs and needs to be 3/8 in and 3/8 out. Or in the case of an in tank pump, 3/8 out.

The USCG has specific requirements for the use of electric fuel pumps in a marine environment. Inboard or Outboard, it makes no difference, you have to follow those. Go to their website, download a copy and read it thoroughly. If you feel you can't comply with them then don't do it.
 
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