Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

[rdrksmith]

I have an 1985 Mercury Black Max XR2 on a Bass Tracker.

I have been having problems with it.

Idles fine but when I put it in gear and give it throttle it dies.

I have removed all 3 carbs and cleaned them out. But still same problem.

I got it planed up and trimmed out once today. But I slowed it down and got back in the throttle and it fell on its face.

I had to limp back to the dock.

Thanks

 

[bryanwess2000]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

These problems can be easy or hard to diagnose. No matter what problem I
have I always check compression first, then spark, then fuel. Yours could
be any one of these. Confirm good compression readings and check spark
with a tester and we'll be able to better help you.
You may have a low cylinder, weak or intermittent spark or an issue with
the fuel supply. There's too many unknowns at this point to be able to tell
you what the problem is.

 

[rdrksmith]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

Compression in all cylinders is 120+. 2 were 122.

Spark appears to be at all cylinders. Limited testing ability there.

Fuel is new. I emptied all old gas before initial crankup.

I put some Mercury Quikleen in the tank before adding new gas.

I am going back to the lake today. I still am at a loss as to the culprit of my problems.

I am truly bumfuzzled here.

Thanks for the reply.

Rob

 

[rdrksmith]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

Same problem. Never got her planed back up.

Problems seem to be getting worse.

I am guessing that the electronics are to blame.

Going to throw more parts at it monday.

Really Frustrated.

 

[rdrksmith]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

I have tested for spark. I am getting spark at all plugs.

All I have is a Spark tester. I do not have the equiptment to measure the strength of the spark.

Is there a component that would cause the engine to lose ignition while on a load ?

Could this be caused by a faulty fuel pump ?

Some input please

Thanks
Rob

 

[j_martin]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

I have tested for spark. I am getting spark at all plugs.

All I have is a Spark tester. I do not have the equiptment to measure the strength of the spark.

Is there a component that would cause the engine to lose ignition while on a load ?

Could this be caused by a faulty fuel pump ?

Some input please

Thanks
Rob

Right off the bat, you should know that systematic diagnostics is the surest way to prevent excessive parts purchases.

You have good compression, and it idles fine, so basic mechanical stuff is strong, and the reeds are good.

Next is to do some basic testing.
Does the primer bulb collapse when you're having trouble?
>>>>> suction fuel line obstructed.
If it doesn't, does squeezing it when you're having trouble do anything? What?
>>>>> Improves ..... fuel delivery problems.
>>>>>Deteriorates.... carbs flooding

With a spark tester with adjustable gaps, do you get a good strong spark on all cylinders?

And so on.
Step by step troubleshooting, which these guys can guide you through, will lead to the faulty part. If you "throw parts at it" you will eventually fix it, maybe. Sometimes impatient people improperly install a new part, or damage it on install, and then there are 2 simultaneous faults to find.

Your move,
John

 

[rdrksmith]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

Thanks for the Post

Fuel lines are new from the tank to the front of the motor. The breather line is unobscured.

I checked the condition of the lines to the carbs when I had them off... All appear to be fine. Lines were disconnected at the carbs and the primer bulb was pumped to make sure of delivery. All lines appeared to be unobscured.

I was thinking of purchasing a inline fuel pressure guage. ( I need one in the toolbox anyway). What should the pressure be at 1/4 throttle...
1/2 throttle... 3/4 and full throttle ?

Got a friend coming over and we will check spark at a larger gap on the spark tester, If it can jump a 1/4 inch gap I would call that a pretty strong spark.

Thanks again for the post...

I will post results later

Rob

 

[j_martin]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

Thanks for the Post

Fuel lines are new from the tank to the front of the motor. The breather line is unobscured.

I checked the condition of the lines to the carbs when I had them off... All appear to be fine. Lines were disconnected at the carbs and the primer bulb was pumped to make sure of delivery. All lines appeared to be unobscured.

I was thinking of purchasing a inline fuel pressure guage. ( I need one in the toolbox anyway). What should the pressure be at 1/4 throttle...
1/2 throttle... 3/4 and full throttle ?

Got a friend coming over and we will check spark at a larger gap on the spark tester, If it can jump a 1/4 inch gap I would call that a pretty strong spark.

Thanks again for the post...

I will post results later

Rob

It'll run on anything from 1 to 6 lbs. Usually it runs around 2 lbs at slow speed, and around 5 at WOT, but if it drops to 3, it won't hurt anything. Over 7 will overcome the needle valves and flood it.

I just pull the 1/8 in pipe plug out of the last unused carb fitting, put in a hose nipple, and hook up there. That way you are checking all the hoses. Grandma's pressure canner gauge works in a pinch.

Just had a thought. Been there once. A soft pulse line to the fuel pump will fuddle your fuel pressure.

If fuel delivery is the problem, and you pump the primer bulb, it'll pick right up and go as long as you keep caressing it.

That thing needs full flow fittings. If you have aftermarket plastic bayonet fittings on it, that could be your problem.

hope it helps
John

 

[saumon]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

Thanks for the Post

Got a friend coming over and we will check spark at a larger gap on the spark tester, If it can jump a 1/4 inch gap I would call that a pretty strong spark.

No, a strong spark will jump a 1/2 inch gap.

 

[bryanwess2000]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

Follow J Martins' advice he has helped me and a lot of others on this board.
If you have a multimeter check out the stator, you may be losing some of
your high speed coils. If you don't already have a multimeter just order one with Direct voltage reading ability they can be found for~$80 if you look.
Hopefully it'll be a simple fuel issue becuase electronics are expensive.

 

[rdrksmith]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

The guys at the miss marine are backed up 4 weeks. But they are some of the coolest guys that you can meet. Kudos to Emmett and Kenneth

They will test the stator if I can pull it. They even let me borrow a flywheel puller. You can't beat that with a stick.

I am gonna pull it tonight and take it in tomorrow. With some silent prayers and some luck I may be able to fix this for under $200.

Wish me luck.

Rob

 

[rdrksmith]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

That took a sum total of 15 Min. Alot easier than I thought it would be.

Mr. John I believe I have found the culprit !!!

Take a look at these pics here !!!

All I can say is OUCH !

 

[j_martin]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

That took a sum total of 15 Min. Alot easier than I thought it would be.

Mr. John I believe I have found the culprit !!!

Take a look at these pics here !!!

All I can say is OUCH !

What caused the damage? Was it dressed poorly and hit the flywheel? Anyway, if the coils in the stator are good, and there's enough lead to work with, I'd repair them using solder and an adhesive filled heat shrink tubing. There's no place in an outboard motor for a crimped connection.

 

[rdrksmith]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

Well the stator was shot. I figured that.

I replaced the stator it took a couple of days for it to come in but its on there.
I am going out again to the lake to test her out.

I will post results.

My fingers are crossed.

Rob

 

[rdrksmith]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

A definite improvement with the new stator installed.

But it was still sputtering. I took the inline filter out and it had gunk all in it.

I took it home and drained the tank.

Down in the bottom of the tank it was a ... well SUBSTANCE. I do not know what to call it. It was the color of orange soda and had the concistency of Karo syrup.

Where did that come from ?

What is it ?

Back to the lake tomorrow to see if cleaning the tank out helps... Im sure it did.

Rob

 

[j_martin]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

A definite improvement with the new stator installed.

But it was still sputtering. I took the inline filter out and it had gunk all in it.

I took it home and drained the tank.

Down in the bottom of the tank it was a ... well SUBSTANCE. I do not know what to call it. It was the color of orange soda and had the concistency of Karo syrup.

Where did that come from ?

What is it ?

Back to the lake tomorrow to see if cleaning the tank out helps... Im sure it did.

Rob

Either it's Karo syrup, or it's the product of water, ethanol, phase separation, and a period of time growing a bacterial culture.

That little thumb sized filter will plug in a heartbeat with that stuff. I chit canned mine and put in a 60 GPH fuel filter/water separator.

I notice yer engine is on a bass tracker, as is mine. The fuel tank vent, on the starboard gunwale about a foot forward from the stern, tended to splash fuel out if the tank was near full, and I suspect took on water pretty easily in rough seas. I put in a Racor LG50 fuel/air separator in that vent line and solved the problems.

hope it helps
John

 

[rdrksmith]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

I would post a video but i cant find the application to do it.

We are back to square one. Even with the new stator installed. (Battery is charging alot better)

Still falls on its face when I try and go full throttle.

Spark is still good.
Carbs have been cleaned again.
Tank had some gunk in it (Listed above) Cleaned. New inline filter installed.

Could the trigger have gone out with the stator ?

Everything I have read says that the switch boxes are either working or not. That there isn't any intermediate operation. Kinda like a light bulb... Either burning or burned out. True or False ?

Replace the trigger ?

OMG. This doesn't seem like its going to end.

Rob

 

[j_martin]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

I would post a video but i cant find the application to do it.

We are back to square one. Even with the new stator installed. (Battery is charging alot better)

Still falls on its face when I try and go full throttle.

Spark is still good.
Carbs have been cleaned again.
Tank had some gunk in it (Listed above) Cleaned. New inline filter installed.

Could the trigger have gone out with the stator ?

Everything I have read says that the switch boxes are either working or not. That there isn't any intermediate operation. Kinda like a light bulb... Either burning or burned out. True or False ?

Replace the trigger ?

OMG. This doesn't seem like its going to end.

Rob

Not likely the trigger got hammered. You could have messed up the lead dress when you put in the stator, however. It must be free to move through it's entire range. A long screw in the stator will pin it, and the trigger harness has to be on top of everything else on the top and starboard side of the engine, with one tie wrap holding it at the side of the switchbox mounting plate, and no others.

The chit you described will plug up a filter in about 4 seconds. Ask me how I know.

Put a fuel pressure gauge on it and prove you have fuel delivery before you spend any more time or money on electrics.

hope it helps
John

 

[carrera1984]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

From what you are describing, I am having the same issue it seems. I just got my new stator on and was hoping that it was the problem. dont think so any more... Ill been doing the same tests you have and still come up with nothing.

Does your boat free rev fine on land with the water muffs on? Mine only seems to have an issue under load.

Sorry for the semi-hyjack but hey if it helps us both to figure it out, its worth it. I would try the link and sync. That's something I haven't done yet but seems to be a good lead.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Black Max 150 XR2 Stalls

From what you are describing, I am having the same issue it seems. I just got my new stator on and was hoping that it was the problem. dont think so any more... Ill been doing the same tests you have and still come up with nothing.

Does your boat free rev fine on land with the water muffs on? Mine only seems to have an issue under load.

Sorry for the semi-hyjack but hey if it helps us both to figure it out, its worth it. I would try the link and sync. That's something I haven't done yet but seems to be a good lead.

A V6 will rev right off the top with no load on it while hitting on just a few cylinders. That is no test at all.

If you have good compression, spark, fuel, and the timing is set up right, which is a procedure you go through, it will run well. They are really quite simple engines.