1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

saffi

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

This post caught my eye as I recently re-installed my 25HP Johnson after two years storage.

Does it run with the choke half closed? Then it could easily be the fuel pump. I think however you have maybe multiple issues and should adress them all. It took me a good hour in work and two days searching parts, but well worth the effort.

On mine during storage some water condensed (is that how you say it?) on the tiny shutter valves in the fuel pump. Seloc says fuel pumps can't be serviced but you can definately take them apart completely to check. These shutter valves are very thin sheets of spring metal allowing the fuel to flow only in one direction. One drop of water caused one to rust and a tiny hole appeared. These holes get bigger quite fast so it's quite possible that the engine ran just after storage (and sale) and developed a hole afterwards. Also I notices that all fuel lines get hard and although they don't leak there's a chance that they suck in air somewhere along the way. Just a tiny air leak can affect the fuel flow quite a bit I noticed. Another part prown to rust is the shutoff valve (or actually the "spring", don't know the exact name) that ataches the fuel shutoff to the carb float. It is included in the carb overhaul kit. I would replace all fuel lines, use new clamps, check the seals between fuel pump and the hole in the engine providing the vacuum. Check the diaphragm in the fuel pump and the shutter valves and also see if the seal from where you connect the fuel line to the pump is still good. Then open up the carburator, check the float and just use compressed air to blow out any rust particles and other debris that also migt be there since the whole system has been idle for two years. Check carb float distance and see of the spring is still good. If fuel comes out of the carb when squeezing the ball very hard I would suspect also stuck float or that spring being faulty..

You have a spark so I wouldn't suspect kill switch but make sure they can't short anywhere. I once had weak spark because of water getting into the kill switch circuit.

It's not very difficult to do these things. Just take carb and fuel pump off and sit on the kitchen table for an hour or so ;)

Enjoy!
 

ooldschooll

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

I rebuilt my carb on my 20hp and It would hit but not run.It had ok spark because I also cleaned the points. A friend told me to put in new plugs. At the marina I discovered that the previous owner had the wrong plugs in it and I never checked. once I put new ones in it run fine.
 

CatfishMN

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

Hi Saffi,

Thanks for the detailed post. I will definitely give that a shot. I ordered the carb kit last night and will tackle that job when it arrives. I also went to the library and checked out the manual so I have a good exploded view of everything. I'll also try to get new fuel lines in there as soon as I get a chance.

I'll update or ask more questions ask I go!

Thanks again!
 

CatfishMN

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

Hi, back again. I was looking through the iBoats store and can't find the fuel pump or kit for this motor. The furthest back they go is 1977. Any ideas as to what will work?

Thanks!
 

bktheking

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5,057
Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

Use the square pump from the 77+ 9.9/15 evinrude, same pump, you may have to reararrange the hose locations or change to a longer hose going to the carb, locations look different in the diagrams but it will work.
 

CatfishMN

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

Thanks again! Would you suggest the kit or just buying a whole new one? Is it worth the higher price to avoid taking it apart?
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

They are a PITA to rebuild, if you don't want the grief just buy the whole Sierra pump, besides if you are in the US the price of the pump is half what we pay for it in Canada, that's why I rebuild them.
 

CatfishMN

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

Hi, sorry to be so post-happy, but I thought of something. Can i remove the plugs, spray starting fluid into the cylinder, replace plugs, and pull it over? Will this cause damage at all?

Would this then narrow it down to carb or fuel pump?

Thanks!
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

What I would do-

The fuel pump requires piston movement to pump, you don't even need to start it. Pull the plugs out, remove the line going to the carb and put it in a container. Pull the rope and observe the fuel going into the container, it should pump in spurts while you pull it over.
 

CatfishMN

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

What I would do-

The fuel pump requires piston movement to pump, you don't even need to start it. Pull the plugs out, remove the line going to the carb and put it in a container. Pull the rope and observe the fuel going into the container, it should pump in spurts while you pull it over.

So that would mean the fuel pump is working, right? Then it would like be something in the carb?

I was just wondering if spraying the starting fluid directly into the cylinder may help rule out ignition, etc.

Thanks again BK, you are very helpful!
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

Yes it would so long as there isn't a tiny hole in the diaphram causing fuel to get sucked into the cylinder, pulling the pump and checking for fuel on the backside of the pump would be an indicator. If you want to check to see if it will fire over just spray 50:1 mix into the carb throat, don't use quickstart as there is no oil in it. If you use a spray bottle you can spray more into the carb while it's running to keep it running. If it runs then chances are the carb is due for a service.
 

CatfishMN

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

How do I get a clean shot at the carb throat with that plate in front of it? Do I need to remove it?

Sounds like I have a few avenues to pursue here. I love the process of elimination!
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

Yes you do, may as well remove it as you will probably be doing a carb service anyways.
 

saffi

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

I got a second hand fuel pump by chance from a shop nearby (they have enormous amounts of scrapped engines lying around). What he did, and I think it's a good test, is blowing on the fuel inlet on the fuel pump. Check for air coming out of the cylinder side.

But apart fromthat, if you are going to replace the fuel lines anyway. Just take off the fuel pump and open it up. It's not really rocket science and visual check will give you a clue quite fast. Just open carefully and note how everything fits. there's some springs and plastic parts but it's not really hard to take apart or put together. I would opt for opening it if you're planning to replace it anyway.

In my case the engine would run with the choke almost closed or holding my fingers in front of the air intake. Also, placing the fuel tank above the engine and making sure there's fuel all along the fuel lines should make the engine run. I noticed here that I had some air leaks preventing the fuel to "free flow" into the carburator by gravity alone. (leaky fuel connector). If you do this and directly connect the fuel tank to the carburator the engine should run. Otherwise, just take off the carb. It's two nuts and probably you have to unscrew the shoke holder a bit just to get the knob out. (My engine's a 1982 model so I guess there's some differences but I also noted that the basics on these engines are all the same). You have a sprak, so it must be fuel hahaha....

My guess is, after all this time, some dirt in the carb. New seals, be sure to blow out any dirt in the high speed orrifice (there's a hole in the middle of the carb bowl) using compressed air. The rest you'll replace with the overhaul kit.

Do change fuel lines and maybe fuel connector (or lubricate the O-ring). Just to eliminate other causes. My engine let me down sometimes, but there always was a very clear reason why, and since I learned to read the signs, it has never been a problem getting it back to a one pull starter with great performance.

Good luck and let us know what you find...
 

CatfishMN

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

Thanks again for the detailed post. It might be a few days before I can get around to doing all this (this weekend?) especially since the carb kit needs to be shipped from iBoats. I'll try some of the troubleshooting BK gave me and will definitely updat this thread. I can't let it die in failure!
 

CatfishMN

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

A couple updates:

- Took the plate off the front of the carb, sprayed mixed gas straight into the carb throat, and she turned over!

- Disconnected fuel line into carb (what a pain!) and pulled the cord, fuel came out of the hose!

So does this rule out the fuel pump as the problem and point the finger squarely at the carb? Carb kit will be here in a couple days and then I will tackle that project.

Thanks again!
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 Johnson 25HP won't start

Problably just a carb rebuild and you'll be good to go.
 
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