No sea trial (sigh)...

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Well, I went and looked at the boat today. I met the surveyor and the owner at the boat and we spent about 3.5 hours looking at it. The surveyor ended up charging me an "inspection fee" of $70 (!), even though he spent so much time on it.

There's one show-stopper at the moment: there's no grey-water holding tank and there's no hatch access to the shower drain. So he (the surveyor) is going to look into how much it might cost to add a grey water tank since it's an absolute requirement for Lake George.

Other than that, the boat seemed clean and well-cared for from what we could see. He liked it quite a bit. We didn't run the engines and he didn't do a real survey but his initial reaction is that, barring problems, it's worth what the owner is asking for it. The owner described the problem that he was having last summer with the starboard engine (an intermittant vibration) and how he ran that engine at idle for the last month of the season, just to charge the batteries connected to it. So it needs to be looked at but the surveyor thinks it's likely to be something easy to fix. He also noticed that the small vertical fin directly behind the propellor on that engine has been broken off -- the bottom two or three inches is missing. He said that alone could cause some vibration and needs to be repaired.

While he's looking at the grey water issue, I'll look at a few other boats that are advertised for a somewhat higher price but might not require any repairs at the outset and so might end being a newer boat for the same initial outlay.

The surveyor is a really good guy, a class act and a gentleman. I learned quite a bit from following him around, including quite a little bit about the market. He charged me $70 but I paid him $125, to cover his mileage and because I felt that he was undercharging me for his time. The owner also seemed like a good guy who was up front and, we think, honest about the boat's condition. He also showed us a survey from three years ago and the boat seemed, on the surface at least, to be in largely the same condition. The engines have 1010 hours on them (approx.), which is 150 more than three years ago when the current owner bought the boat.

He put $4500 into it last year, on various repairs and upkeep connected with the engines.

It was a fun day. :)
 

scoutabout

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
1,568
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Glad to hear it was a good day and your surveyor was helpful. Got any pics? We love pics!:)
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

I only have a few pics provided by the seller. I took a camera today but ended up not taking any photos because I was following the surveyor around and concentrating on learning as much as I could. I think I must have asked a few dozen dumb questions. :p
 

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Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,064
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

I bet that boat has spent most of it's life there on LG

I really like to powerplants ....... a very nice pair.
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

I bet that boat has spent most of it's life there on LG

I really like to powerplants ....... a very nice pair.

As far as I understand it's history, it's been mainly on Sacadaga for the last three years. Prior to that, a guy in Hudson Falls owned it and kept it on the river and took it up through the canal to Champlain from time to time.
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

I'll be interested in what the surveyor learned about the grey water problem. If there's a solution to that problem that's not too pricey and if we can determine that the starboard engine is actually ok, them I'm pretty interested in the boat. :)

If not, well, it was a learning process taking a look at it.
 

This_lil_fishy

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
841
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Go on the lake trial, I took one out for a test run before buying some time ago (same sea ray) and what I found was due to it's long/narrow design it required constant trim tab adjustment to ride level in moderate conditions. I decided against the purchase, but was warned about this by someone I trusted. They do make a nice solid boat though, so it was just personal preference on my part that made my decision (oh and it had dual 470's! Ick).

Ian
 

MTribe08

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
680
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

I only have a few pics provided by the seller. I took a camera today but ended up not taking any photos because I was following the surveyor around and concentrating on learning as much as I could. I think I must have asked a few dozen dumb questions. :p

Sure is a nice looking boat! What year and size is it??
 

25thmustang

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
1,849
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Sure is a nice looking boat! What year and size is it??

Looks to be a later 80s 270 Sundancer, IMO.

The owner sounds honest about the boat, or he probably wouldn't have mentioned a vibration issue to you.

Let us know what happens with it!
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Yep, 87 SunDancer 270.

I think he is an honest guy. If the problem with the grey-water discharge hadn't shown up, I would have gone ahead with a full survey and scheduled a mechanic to check the engines. But the grey-water issue is a problem since I cannot put the boat on Lake George without a solution to it.

Beside being able to get to the drains, which would probably mean cutting a hatch in the floor in the cabin near the shower drain and cutting a hole in the side of the boat for some sort of fitting, we'd also need to find a space for a tank. There might be room for a 10-gallon tank in the engine compartment, opposite where the holding tank currently is located but that would involve moving some electronics and I don't know if 10 gallons is a good size for this or if it would be too small.

I'm off on a business trip for a few days so I may not make much progress on this until next week.
 

JoLin

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Aug 18, 2007
Messages
5,146

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Thanks. :)

The boat does have a toilet and a holding tank for the toilet. That part is ok. The problem is with the grey water from the two sinks and the shower drain. That water is currently pumped overboard and cannot be in Lake George.

The holding tank for the toilet is 10 gallons, so pumping the grey water into it would likely mean filling the tank quite quickly, which could mean trips back to the marina just to empty the tank. I'd prefer to have a separate tank and, if possible, one larger than 10 gallons for the grey water.

Unfortunately, while we can see the plumbing for the two sinks just by opening the the cupboards below them, the shower drain is in the floor and there seems to be no access to the space below it. If I understand the problem correctly, we'd need to:

1. Cut a hatch in the floor to have access to the space below the head (if it's even open space)

2. Situate a new tank someplace

3. Run flexible tubing from the two sinks and the shower drain to the new tank.

4. Run a hose of some kind from the new tank to the external side of the boat for a pump out.

But I really don't know what I'm talking about or if this is possible or how much it might cost. The surveyor was hoping to maybe find out some details but I'm not sure if he'll have much luck on that end.
 

25thmustang

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
1,849
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Thats a tough one with your style, as the sinks are on opposite sides of the boat. If they shared a wall I would say sacrafice some space in the cabinet.

Is there any room under the sette seat?

Both my boats have thru hulls for the sinks, no grey water holding tank.
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Actually the sinks are on the same side of the boat in this boat. They're only separated by the refrigerator and there's space behind it to run a flexible hose. The biggest problem seems to be finding a way to access the shower drain from below it. I don't know if the space below it is hollow, so if we cut a hole in the floor for a hatch in front of the head, would that even help us?

I'm wondering if Sea Ray would have architectural drawings available for a boat this old? Or if there is some other way to find out what's below it?
 

25thmustang

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
1,849
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Sorry, I wasn't looking at the photos when I responded, you actually have it easier if everything is roughly in the same area. As for the drain below the shower is there a pump in a sumped area? My IMP has this set up, its a solid fiberglass liner with a sumped area in the floor that has a pump out. I believe mine only pumped to the bilge but if you have a similar set up, it might not be tough to get it to pump where you want?

My guess is below the floor would be some room, but very little. These boats typically use every ounce of space, and the cabin floors are very close to the bottom of the hull, especially when your talking an area not directly over the keel.

I would be interested to see what you find and the solution.
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Thanks. The owner and the surveyor were thinking that it might be a bilge space with a pump, too, but they didn't see where it was pumping from or to.

Seems like a silly problem to run into but I either have to find a solution or move on to another boat. I'll post whatever I do find here.

Thanks again.
 

Utahboatnut

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
785
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Is there any way to use the head holding tank as your grey water tank, and just use a self contained porta pottie? I know this isn't the ideal solution but it may work its all there with a pump out on the deck, and if you removed the head you might be able to see whats under there. I guess it all depends on just how the tank for the current head is plumbed/drained. Good luck with it.
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Thanks!

In this boat, the head is all one piece -- toilet, floor, sink, etc. Hopefully Sea Ray will be able to provide an answer. But I'm also starting to look at other boats because this may be too difficult to solve in some fairly straightforward manner.
 

Grand Larsony

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
221
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

Just one comment and it's potentially important. Regarding the motors...

Be darn sure you like the performance with those V-6 engines. That might or might not push that boat to your satisfaction. If you'll be doing your own maintenance crawl around and see if there is reasonable space (it's very tight in my '89 SR 300 with T-260s).

That boat was also available with twin 260 mercs (but also with smaller engines, I think T-175s?).

Just be sure. Being underpowered SUCKS HUGE.

Ok, I lied -- more commens:

Be careful to check for moisture in the "trunk" (the raised "roof" in front of the windshield) and around all the rail stanchions, anchor locker, cleats, fittings, etc. on the topsides and all around the windows. You'll find moisture but hopefully not much -- and some is ok. Check the swim deck carefully, too, if it's fiberglass.

You should also see if the sanitation hoses need replacing (e.g. if original they definitely will). That'll run ya about $4-500 or so.

That said, every boat will need some work... I am extremely happy with my old gal, and she's been a great boat so far with zero issues. Hope your experience is as good. That's a good boat and will resell just fine when it's time to do so.

Last item: Think carefully about plumbing in a grey water drain for the shower. It's likely you'll NEVER use it (we haven't in 10 years of boating) and it will be the hardest thing to hook up. Just disconnect the shower head and stow it. If regulations require, disconnect the drain hose and cap it off.
 

Steve Mahler

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
361
Re: No sea trial (sigh)...

i have a very familiar boat, and my dock neighbor has that exact boat. some comments

1) i am 99% sure the twin 4.3 was the top power for that boat. regardless it is a good performer imo
2) agree 100% on disconnecting shower, i never use mine.
3) it really is no big deal to plumb in a small tank in the engine compartment. snaking the hose is the only tricky part. room under the front berth though, although draining would be a pain.
4) there has to be a way, i bet under the aft berth, to get to the shower sump.
 
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