Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

skargo

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Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Best of luck!
 

Santa

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Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

UPDATE -

Sorry to keep you all waiting. Thankfully the owners were really dealing in good faith. Turns out my boat was inside the building all clean and shiny, waiting for me to pick it up! It was in perfect shape, not a single scratch or accessory missing.

Oh, and so you all know, I didn't even go there finally. Instead of "waiting" the 20 hour drive, I got in touch with a local boat surveyor who was able to get to the dealership immediately. The owner arranged for someone to be there and meet with him. The surveyor called me while he was there and we went through a checklist of things together.

At the same time, I arranged for my transportation guy to go there and pick the boat up after the inspection (under the watchful eye of my surveyor)

The boat is on it's way, it should arrive in it's new home tomorrow!

One big saga, but thankfully I dealt with very honest people. Actually, everything finished exactly according to the original plan, with only one exception, that is I got the boat two weeks earlier, and (ouch!) I didn't get a chance to get it shrink-wrapped before transport. So I guess I'll be over budget by the cost of one good boat wash!

Thank you all for your input. I'll post pics as soon as I get the chance.
 

tractoman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
370
Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Nice follow up. Hope the road trip home for the boat's a good one.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Glad it worked out.
Bankruptcy, like music by Wagner, is not as bad as it sounds. But every case is different and any case can head in any direction at any time. For example, many chapter 11's are liquidations (remember HQ? Circuit City?). Also, you often hear that someone is "bankrupt" when they haven't filed, but are going out of business.

So for those who may experience something similar, and coming from someone has professional experience in business bankruptcy:
The sheriff/police will not get involved. Don't bother them.
The clerk of the court can only tell you about what has or hasn't been filed; they cannot give advice or information such as "you can go get your boat" or "they are still open." don't bother them much.
Don't bother the judge, either.
There is no trustee in a chapter 11; call the debtor's (bankrupt's) lawyer, who is listed with the filing (or the clerk will tell you). There is a trustee in a chapter 7 you can call.
You can get a priority claim for consumer deposits but it is limited.
You snooze, you lose. No one is looking out for you. Miss a deadline and you are history. And the case can change radically in an instant, so information goes stale quickly. (hint: hire a lawyer who handles "creditor's rights.")
In many bankruptcies, there are competing claims for the same collateral--even something you have bought and have title to. You have to get into the fight early. And transactions such as sales or payments can get reversed, including those that occur after the case is filed.
People with similar claims can get treated the same, so there can be a group effort. In this case, for example, they may treat everyone with completed paperwork one way and everyone with just a deposit another way. But you have to get involved and stay involved; the group can split up.
Never ever rely on someone's experience from another case. In fact, if you don't know what you're doing, don't even listen to them. And don't do your own legal research on the internet--you may as well do your own knee surgery.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,750
Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Glad it worked out.
Bankruptcy, like music by Wagner, is not as bad as it sounds. But every case is different and any case can head in any direction at any time. For example, many chapter 11's are liquidations (remember HQ? Circuit City?). Also, you often hear that someone is "bankrupt" when they haven't filed, but are going out of business.

So for those who may experience something similar, and coming from someone has professional experience in business bankruptcy:
The sheriff/police will not get involved. Don't bother them.
The clerk of the court can only tell you about what has or hasn't been filed; they cannot give advice or information such as "you can go get your boat" or "they are still open." don't bother them much.
Don't bother the judge, either.
There is no trustee in a chapter 11; call the debtor's (bankrupt's) lawyer, who is listed with the filing (or the clerk will tell you). There is a trustee in a chapter 7 you can call.
You can get a priority claim for consumer deposits but it is limited.
You snooze, you lose. No one is looking out for you. Miss a deadline and you are history. And the case can change radically in an instant, so information goes stale quickly. (hint: hire a lawyer who handles "creditor's rights.")
In many bankruptcies, there are competing claims for the same collateral--even something you have bought and have title to. You have to get into the fight early. And transactions such as sales or payments can get reversed, including those that occur after the case is filed.
People with similar claims can get treated the same, so there can be a group effort. In this case, for example, they may treat everyone with completed paperwork one way and everyone with just a deposit another way. But you have to get involved and stay involved; the group can split up.
Never ever rely on someone's experience from another case. In fact, if you don't know what you're doing, don't even listen to them. And don't do your own legal research on the internet--you may as well do your own knee surgery.

But my uncle's mothers's cousin said.....

Well put Home Cookin'
 

Nandy

Commander
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
Messages
2,145
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Asking for legal advice on a boating forum is like ordering spaghetti in a chinese restaurant.
Well, considering that noodles where invented in china and brought to Italy by Marco Polo the above might not be too crazy. I agree that looking for legal advise in the net is not the best but sometime hearing what other people went thru can give one a bit of hope. However, you need to understand that the only trusted advise is from the lawyer handling your case. The advise that you will get from some of the "arm chair" lawyers will go from the ridiculous to the plain legal and stupid.

I'm glad it all came thru fine.
 

Expidia

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
2,368
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Oh dear . . . 1500 views so far. Why is this thread going in the direction of the infamous "sold a boat and it busted" thread :D

Must be slow at the lakes :)
 

rjlipscomb

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
582
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

All you have to fear is fear itself, or something like that. :D

Relax, go and get your boat. Don't waste a couple of days asking everyone questions and panicking. It should be okay. Call to make sure someone will be there around your expected arrival (during business hours) time.

You real problem may be dealing with warranty issues and such. But, the big concern about it being tied up in bankruptcy will be resolved once you pick it up. (usually). But quit worrying about it.
 

bomar76

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 27, 2002
Messages
1,963
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

I was at my lawyers today asking his advice on a bimni top for my boat.....while I was away did I miss any updates on legal advice from a boat forum?
 

skargo

Banned
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
4,640
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

I was at my lawyers today asking his advice on a bimni top for my boat.....while I was away did I miss any updates on legal advice from a boat forum?

*chortle*
 

paulspaddle

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
753
Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Re: UPDATED AND CONCLUSION: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

UPDATE -

Sorry to keep you all waiting. Thankfully the owners were really dealing in good faith. Turns out my boat was inside the building all clean and shiny, waiting for me to pick it up! It was in perfect shape, not a single scratch or accessory missing.

Oh, and so you all know, I didn't even go there finally. Instead of "waiting" the 20 hour drive, I got in touch with a local boat surveyor who was able to get to the dealership immediately. The owner arranged for someone to be there and meet with him. The surveyor called me while he was there and we went through a checklist of things together.

At the same time, I arranged for my transportation guy to go there and pick the boat up after the inspection (under the watchful eye of my surveyor)

The boat is on it's way, it should arrive in it's new home tomorrow!

One big saga, but thankfully I dealt with very honest people. Actually, everything finished exactly according to the original plan, with only one exception, that is I got the boat two weeks earlier, and (ouch!) I didn't get a chance to get it shrink-wrapped before transport. So I guess I'll be over budget by the cost of one good boat wash!

Thank you all for your input. I'll post pics as soon as I get the chance.


Excellent! Seems some guys are missing this UPDATE from you.

Good to hear it's working out.
 

kenmyfam

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
14,392
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Glad it worked out favorably for you. Looking forward to the photos.:)
 

Santa

Cadet
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
6
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Just got home now from the pick-up point (it's close to midnight). Here's a quick snapshot taken when we got it.
 

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HollaGeo

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
316
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Congrats.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

There is some good info here and some bad info. A couple of things that caught my eye that need some clarification, are that Chapter 11 (Reorganization) is not the same as Chapter 7 (Liquidation) and the OP would not be a creditor, so he would not be treated in the same manner.

Under Chapter 11, the entire point of the filing is to try to keep the entity open and operating, while restructuring. That means that a sales business would be expected to keep selling things. Its also worth mentioning, that bankruptcy courts are Federal courts, not local courts. The Judges handle cases in defined jurisdictions (Eastern District of Louisiana, for example) and they are very independant in their thinking. They also don't do much of anything very quickly. A Chapter 11 case can go on for years, if the company really has any hope of holding things together. In short, if the business can keep generating revenue, which will pay the creditors, the judge is not likely to shut the business down, by holding up transactions.

Given the complexities of "floor planned" mechandise, however, my inclination would have been to get my hands on the boat as soon as possible and get it home. Doing so, makes it harder for others to lay claim to the asset. In short, if "they" don't have it, "they" have to go through the court to get it. When the buyer can show proof of payment, the sales conract and the Certificate of Origin on both the boat and trailer, the Sheriff in his jusrisdiction isn't going help the finance company, by trying to take the boat back. From that Sheriff's perspective, the boat is legally in the buyer's possession and he will walk away from the problem.

By the description provided, it sounds like the OP did just that. He didn't sit around trying to figure out how to get to a location that is 20 hours away. Instead, he found a local to help and "took possession" as quickly as he possibly could, under the circumstances. If I were him, the next thing that I would do, is to immediately register and obtain titles on both items, should both be eligible for a title.

What he also did, was to make use of the window that exists from the time that a company enters Chapter 11 and when the creditors react to it. My guess is that the OP had his shiny new boat in his driveway, before the dealer's finance company even knew of the Chaper 11 filing.

I also would not have gone to the local Sheriff in Alabama. That would have only complicated matters and would probably have screwed up the "grab it and run" strategy. This is true, not because anyone did anything wrong, but because police departments often react to things by taking the easiest route possible. They also don't know many things about the law, beyond what they deal with on a day to day basis. I can very much see some local department, deciding that the easiest thing to do, would be to keep the boat at the dealership, until someone from the DA's office told them otherwise.

I'm glad that the OP got his boat and was able to remove a potential headache of major proportions. Now its time for him to go boating!



???
 

Home Cookin'

Fleet Admiral
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

The old saying, "possession is 9/10ths of the law" has a lot of truth to it.

In most chapter 11's, the banks know about the filings before they happen. In a big one, there are "first day orders" sometimes as many as 25, that are entered without notice to anyone except the inner circle, on the first day of the case.

Many, perhaps most, chapter 11's are liquidations. Some start as a reorganization; some start as a liquidation.

The boat buyer was definitely a creditor in the case.

"All the world's a goose and thems what don't pluck, goes without feathers."
 

NelsonQ

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
1,413
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

Just got home now from the pick-up point (it's close to midnight). Here's a quick snapshot taken when we got it.

Happy owners, great boat, and even better outcome.

Enjoy, get some sleep, and get out boating ASAP
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Bought boat, paid for it, dealer files for bankruptcy

The boat buyer was definitely a creditor in the case.[\QUOTE]

A creditor is someone who is owed money by the debtor, for providing a good or service. The debtor does not owe the buyer anything, once the boat is in the buyer's possession.

I am curious as to where you are getting your information.



???
 
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