Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

[Vlietboater]

Exploring the option of upgrading my Alpha 1 on my 87 Liberator 211, during my 383 stroker upgrade. What should i be looking for A Bravo 1 2 or 3???

 

[Don S]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Personally, I wold say a Volvo DP-S would out perform any of the Mercruiser drives. But those that have never run a Volvo DP drive will say I am wrong.

 

[Vlietboater]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Not sure the transom changes involved, but as far as i know, i would only have to drill two extra holes to allow a bravo plate to bolt to an existing alpha opening?

 

[Don S]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Volvo SX and DPS uses the same exact transom cutout as Merc and former OMC.

Look at this thread http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=387160

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Personally, I wold say a Volvo DP-S would out perform any of the Mercruiser drives. But those that have never run a Volvo DP drive will say I am wrong.

Actually............I wouldn't say you're wrong.......BUT I'd like to try them side by side with th same engine!

I have a Bravo III in my Liberator. I love it. It previously had a 460 and King Cobra (similar HP) and was a DOG out of the hole even when it was new. (My brother bought the boat new) < You will need to drill 2 additional holes to accommodate the 8 studs with a Bravo>

With the 454 Bravo III it might be 3 MPH slower at WOT, but it just ROCKETS out of the the hole now!



When I was looking, I looked for a Volvo Bigblock + DPS but I couldn't find even ONE......I did find a LOT of Mercruiser engines and drives....

If you're going to do a 383 stroker, I would suggest aluminum heads, manifolds and risers (+closed cooling) to further reduce weight.


It's a neat boat now the way it runs!




Before:

After:

Whatever you do, install a drive with dual counter-rotating props.....you'll love it!


Cheers,


Rick

 

[havasuboatman]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Not sure the transom changes involved, but as far as i know, i would only have to drill two extra holes to allow a bravo plate to bolt to an existing alpha opening?

Correct. It'll slide right in with the two extra holes. Swapped a few of them.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Forget the Bravo 2, its intention is for big 'ol heavy cruisers.
Bravo 3 will do as HT32 says, it'll get you out of the hole faster. It will cost you absolute top end speed though. And there are limited prop choices for it, and they are expensive, brand new. Less so used. VP DuoProps are in the same category. Actually they are faster than a B3, but their props are expensive too. So are all the maintenance parts associated with Volvo drives. More expensive than the already expensive Mercruiser stuff.
If all out top speed is your goal, I would install a Bravo 1. Lots of props available for it as well.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

I'm not so sure mine would be much slower though.....

My Lib with the 460, 1.41:1 Cobra and a 20p prop (19 re-pitched to 20) Used to do 60 mph at 5000 RPM. (I think that's 200 rpm over max recommended for a 460)

Now I do 57mph at 4600 (Thunderbolt V rev limiter set at 4700) with a 1.81:1 Bravo III and 26p props.

I think if I disabled the rev limiter and turned the 454 at 5000 RPM, I would probably do the same speed as before.......

If you're going to put a Bravo I in that Lib, you'll want a 1.50:1 drive and you'll want to turn the 383 at 5000 to get any speed out of it but it WILL be nearly as slow out of the hole as it was with previous engine. With A Bravo III I don't know if you'll have the torque to turn a 1.81:1 drive. You may want to use a 2.00:1 drive with a "III".

You can do a little figger'n though with a prop calculator. http://www.go-fast.com/Prop_Slip_Calculator.htm

Use about 8% slip for a Bravo III (for actual speed) and about 12-15% slip for a Bravo I. (Mine comes right in at 8% at 57mph)

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

I'm not so sure mine would be much slower though.....

I am. I guarantee I can bolt on a Bravo 1 to your boat, and find a prop that will be the 3-4 mphs faster on the top end that you mention. Sure it might take some experimenting and be a hassle, but if TOP SPEED was ALL I cared about, a Bravo 1 would go on the boat.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

much slower

Well, that's my point.......3-4 mph is not "much slower"!

Ok.....Now having said that I am also looking for a 502 block! (I want my cake and eat it too!!)

 

[Vlietboater]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Well for what i am looking for 3-4 MPH would not bother me, I am looking for a good drive that will hold up to a solid 383, good holeshots. Top speed is not my main concern, do not want to loose alot but can live with 3-4. I mainly use the boat for sport and fun, like crusing around, but have a lot of fun with some friends, tubing, skiing, or boarding. The current setup i have with 3-4 people in boat and one on a tube/board i have to go WOT with tabs down for what seems like forever until it gets up on plane. Just seems udnerpowered. I think more related to the quadra crap! But mainly looking for a better performing boat, also heard the B3 provided more control over single prop.

Just to get up to speed on the bravo`s, the raw water pump is belt driven off the motor, nothing in the outdrive?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Just to get up to speed on the bravo`s, the raw water pump is belt driven off the motor, nothing in the outdrive?

Ayuh,... That's Correct...

 

[bomar76]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Once he totals up the cost of doing any conversion that idea will most likely leave his head.

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Once he totals up the cost of doing any conversion that idea will most likely leave his head.

I'm with you on that!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Well for what i am looking for 3-4 MPH would not bother me, I am looking for a good drive that will hold up to a solid 383, good holeshots. Top speed is not my main concern, do not want to loose alot but can live with 3-4. I mainly use the boat for sport and fun, like crusing around, but have a lot of fun with some friends, tubing, skiing, or boarding. The current setup i have with 3-4 people in boat and one on a tube/board i have to go WOT with tabs down for what seems like forever until it gets up on plane. Just seems udnerpowered. I think more related to the quadra crap! But mainly looking for a better performing boat, also heard the B3 provided more control over single prop.

Just to get up to speed on the bravo`s, the raw water pump is belt driven off the motor, nothing in the outdrive?

The 211 Lib was severely underpowered with any small block engine and single prop Merc or Cobra!


I also have Bennett Tabs on mine but I only put them down when I'm pulling a wake-boarder. (just to lower the "nose" a little and prevent it from planing at a low speed.....)




Last summer my brother and I took the Lib to Lake Tahoe in Calif. We had 8 people, (6 adults (2) 100lb kids).... and (3) 100lb dogs in it........... I removed the 26p props and installed the 24's.

I still didn't think it would even plane!!!

Not only did it plane, but it did 42mph with all of us in it!! (6000 MSL elevation)

My brother told me that when he had it with the 460 in it and that many people it would not plane even down on the valley floor!!!


I paid $5000 for the complete "Steering wheel-prop" engine/drive/everything out of a 98 24' Bilgeliner that was wind-damaged by a tree falling on the bow......


There are frequently deals out there like that, but you have to search for them. Summer before last, I found (locally) a 2006 Mercruiser 425hp 496 MPI complete with Gimbal/Bravo III, props trim pump, etc...... with about 80 hrs on it. They wanted $8500.


I WAS TEMPTED!!!!!!


Right before I bought the 97 454/BIII, I almost bought a 2002 300hp 5.7L MPI Bravo I closed cooled (salt water).......(400hrs since new) A Mercury dealer had it on consignment......The owner wanted $7500 for it and turned down my offer of $6000.


That's when I found the 97 454/BIII for $5000.




Cheers,



Rick

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

... But mainly looking for a better performing boat, also heard the B3 provided more control over single prop...

B3s advantages are listed on this site many times. Faster to plane, hold plane at a slower speed, better cruising speed, less "blow out" in turns. Slow speed handling is better in regards to they have a better "bite" in forward, they move right away. They will also turn better in reverse, and turn each way. However, that better bite comes with one penalty, they don't do anything "slow" in slow speed docking type situations. When you put them in gear, they are moving and moving fast (compared to single prop drive). If you have a boat with factory fuel injection, it's even worse, since the idle seems to be naturally higher on them to begin with. You will have to get used to pulling the lever in and out of gear more often, in docking situations.

As pointed out above, you are going to spend Thousands of dollars to do this. Are you sure that's what you want to do?
Also, SEI sells brand new Alpha Ones for $1195. Might see if their 3 year no fault warranty will cover it behind a 383. A lot less expensive than converting to a Bravo.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

Well, that's my point.......3-4 mph is not "much slower"!

It is if we are racing and the distance is much over a mile!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Outdrive upgrade!!! Bravo 1,2,3

It is if we are racing and the distance is much over a mile!

Yeah! It sure ain't much huh?

You will have to get used to pulling the lever in and out of gear more often, in docking situations.

That's not all that much of a problem with the Lib since it's so heavy.... and with the new Teleflex CH1700 it REALLY goes into and out of gear very nice!

It DOES handle FAR better at docking speeds than it EVER did with the 460 King Kobra though........ In fact, it seems to do EVERYTHING better....except top speed.......and it's no slower when the previous engine was run at rated (4800) RPM....(My Brother probably flattened the cam running the engine 200-300 RPM over rated rpm!.......although he denies it.......or maybe it was the Slick-50 he ran in it!!)