90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

[b0mbtrack]

Not sure year or number but it is an older johnson 90hp (VRO that was removed) 4-cyl. and at the bottom of the heads are the thick hoses that come out. 2 big Carbs and one of the chokes with a red handle.
Very hard to start and ran really rough the last time it did start. Cleaned carbs but it didn't do anything. Compression is fine all around. Spark is good. When I pull the plug wires (both on the starboard side) with the engine running nothing happens, when I pull either on the port side the rpms change like they are supposed to. The two plugs on the stbd side are also very clean when I check them but I don't see any milky water like I thought I would. Would this still be water getting into the cylinders even though it is not milky and compression is good?

 

[bob johnson]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

I am going to jump in here....and ask if this is a joke post?

anyone who has removed and dissasembled and rebuilt, and re-installed carbs on a V4, should know if there should be or would be any water in a cylinder, especially MILKY water???

unless...the carb cleaning constituted spraying carb cleaner into the throttle openings...then maybe the confusing about milky water could arise.

in any case, if this is a serious post, then it behooves the OP, to find or try to figure the model number and year of a motor.

sounds like you may have a cross flow V4...

there should be no milky water in the cylinders...the milky water is a blended mixture that comes usually from a lower unit where the gear have whipped the water into the gear oil...

I cant believe it gets anywhere near a cylinder

all water near the cylinder head is from the lake or ocean and bypasses any oil supply.

maybe you clarify what you have found and what the problem is

good luck

bob

 

[b0mbtrack]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

Sorry I don't know everything there is to know about these things. As far as the number it has been taken off the engine and I didn't have the time to try and find it online, but when I got the time I went ahead and found it and here it is, J90TXCNB. 1982

When I pull the plugs on the stbd side they are very clean but not milky (I have seen plugs be milky due to water being in the cylinders that is why I am confused about this since these weren't milky). I then went online to google this and found a post where it says the plugs can either be milky or clean and that could indicate water in the cylinder. I guess I just came on here to verify rather than pull a head off. And yes I pulled the carbs off to clean them, very simple and I do it all the time. I don't usually deal with water in cylinders.

So to clarify, both spark plugs on stbd side are very clean when pulled out and not milky. With engine running and either of those plug wires pulled the engine rpms don't change. Compression is good and spark is good.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

milky is not a term used to describe spark plugs.

now the color of spark plugs is used to help identify problems in a motor...

and it MIGHT be that someone used a poor term, MILKY to to describe what color the plug was...

water is very rare in a cylinder...and usually will burn up, if the plugs were fireing.

change the plugs from one side of your motor to the other, and see if the same effect happens.

you obviously are no getting spark or gas in one side of the motor, because you said the motor dioes not change when you pull those plugs.

check to see if there is spark going to all your plugs.

you can do that with a cheap spark tester or put the plug in the boot and lay against the block and crank the motor.. see if the spark jumps...

may need two people, one to view the plug the other to turn the key over.

if you are getting water in your cylinder....it might be coming in through a leaking head gasket or a crack in the block... but it shouldnt be milky....

good luck

bob

 

[b0mbtrack]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

Thanks for the quick replies,
I double checked the spark and that was fine (I am able to get it to run for a few minutes so I can get back there and check my spark checkers), when I pull the plugs I am able to smell fuel. I thought maybe it was getting too much fuel but don't really know how that would happen, I pulled the two little choke feed hoses off the choke to make sure they weren't feeding fuel when they weren't supposed to but they were fine.

I switched the plugs from one side of the engine to the other but it did the same thing with the same cylinders.

I did the test where you hold one palm open and wave the spark plug at your open palm with your other hand and it did splash my hand but it looked like regular fuel/oil mix. But like you said, the water could have burned off.

The only other thing I can think of bringing up is that when I can get it to run it will run at a low rpm but then very suddenly pick up rpms just for a few seconds. After it picks up these rpms it will either stall right away or go back to low rpms.
Thanks again for the quick replies.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

I am not sure what the choke hoses are, but i am thinking they dont have anything to do with your issue, and id leave them alone.

if you instaled the two plugs that were on the side of the motor than ran good, in the side that ran bad...and it still ran bad...AND you verified that you get spark to all the plugs, then you are most likely dealing with carb or compression woes..


you did a compression check??? I wonder if you did it correctly and with good compression gauge.

you could try to squeeze the primer ball when running rough to see if that gives you more rpms!!

other than that, you will have to wait for carb experts, i would think...

I wonder if timing could be an issue as well...

this motor was running good for you at some recent point???????

for some reason you are doing a lot of weird checks, that dont seem normal proceedure...almost like you heard from a friend of a freind how to check and in the exchanges, something is getting messed up in the explanations...sorry if that sounds offensvie..it isnt ment to be

bob

 

[b0mbtrack]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

Not a problem...
The choke hoses (don't know what they are really called) are the two little hoses that are at the bottom of the choke and deliver fuel to the carbs when you press the key in or turn the red knob at the top of the choke. I've had one in the past where this was just constantly pouring fuel into the carbs when it wasn't supposed to but this one seems to be working fine. That is the only reason I checked it because of past experience. Like you said, nothing to do with this one.

As far as the compression check I got the engine as warm as I could, took out all the plugs, opened the throttle as wide as I could (to get as much air in the cylinders) and did it like that. They were all at about 120-125psi. But I guess the best thing to do would be to disconnect the throttle from the control this way I can open the throttle plates up as far as possible.

As far as pumping the primer bulb to see if it picks up rpms I didn't try that, I did try to push in the choke at the key to give it more fuel but it is hard to say the result because sometimes it seems to react and other times it doesn't seem to react.

Maybe I'll try the carbs again, I could have just missed something. But I will also try the primer bulb like you said.
Thanks again

 

[bob johnson]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

you dont need to fool with the throttle to check the compression...if it turns over 5 or 6 times you got enough...and the numbers are good...

id say try the primer bulb....other than that, id say you have some carb issues...

how many carbs on that motor???

you never said what exactly you did, when you cleaned the carbs...did you dismantle them?

bob

 

[b0mbtrack]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

The motor has two carbs each with two bores. But the carbs were very simple, I dismantled them, sprayed all the passages with carb and choke cleaner as well as compressed air. I also found out where each hole went and made sure air would come out, I wasn't just spraying them and hoping they were cleaned.

I checked the idle fuel passage that is after the throttle plate as well as the mid-range fuel passages. I found the vent for the float bowl as well as the air passages. Blew out the full throttle "tube?" that goes up the center of the carb. Put it all back together and did the thing where you blow inside the fuel intake with the carb upside down, then flip it to make sure the needle is working (don't know any better way to explain that, but if you blow in it with the carb right side up air should go in and if you blow in it with the carb upside down no air should go in due to the float and needle). There are no idle screws on these carbs so I didn't have to do anything with that.

While Carbs were off I checked the reeds behind them and they seemed fine.

I actually do a lot of carbs, that is why I am pretty confident with what I did, though I have missed stuff in the past and I'm sure I will again. I usually do a lot of Yamaha and Mercruisers though, but I found these carbs to be more simple. I haven't tried the primer bulb yet but I will, I had to take a break from it for a bit.

 

[mikesea]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

the milky residue is likely water,if you get water in the cyl.it wont fire,you say your compression is good,there are a couple ways water can get into your cylinders,One common way is thru the exhust covers.They are located on extreme rear of the engine,usually a bunch of 3/8 or 7/16 head screws.Another can be the base gasket ,but,I would bet on the exhust plate gaskets first.That too is assuming its not the head gasket,but you say the compression is ok.At this point ,as long as your positive your fuel was not water contaminated,you might want to check those exhust covers,if it were me,Id also change my head gaskets too.Have youover heated the engine latly,that can help blow gaskets on any I mentioned.The hoses you spoke are the fuel supply lines for the primer .They terminate at the intake manifold

 

[b0mbtrack]

Re: 90hp johnson, water in cylinders?

Hey mikesea, the spark plugs were not milky but very clean. I might have wrote my first description wrong. I was suspecting water in the cylinders but thought it was strange that the plugs weren't "milky" but was told that really clean plugs could be a symptom. There is no water in the fuel though, that is for sure.