Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

[Bubba1235]

As some of you may know, I live on a small farm in the middle of no where Missouri. On my farm I have a nice pond around an acre or so in size. The pond was part of the farm when I bought it 12 years ago. The previous owner had obviously stocked the pond with catfish as I have several in it as long as my arm. I do not fish in it and instead treat them more or less as pets and feed them regularly. Love to watch them make the water roll at feeding time.

Ok, so a couple weeks ago a pickup pulls up and there are 3 guys and they want to know if they can go fishing in my pond. In a nice way I said no, I don't allow anyone to fish it and I don't allow strangers on the farm as a rule. They were not very happy but left and I didn't think anything more about it.

Today I get the mail and there is a letter from the Conservatoin Commimission. In it was copies of Missouri law and what they consider to be "state" fish. If the fish were put in the pond from any public stream or body of water the fish belong to the state and I must allow people to come in and fish from the pond. The only exception to this rule is if I can prove the original stock came from a commercial hatchery.

The problem of course is I bought the farm from an 82 year old that has long since passed away. I have no way of proving where the original stock came from. I honestly have no real idea whee they came from.

Just got off the phone talking to the local Conservation Officer and he confirmed what the letter said. (He knew nothing about the letter, it came from the main office.) He told me its a funny rule because I CAN refuse admitance to the property on an individule basis (I just don't like how you look.) but I can not have no trespassing signs or make a blanket statement that no one can fish there. The only other option he offered was to kill off all the fish in the pond, have it restocked by a commercial hatchery (get records of it) and start all over.

Sigh... Always something.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

Wow, I had no idea there were laws out there like this. Can you not own the lake/pond that is on your property? Are the contents of the pond, the property of the State? What happens if they swim to another area when the water levels are up?

What is the life span of a catfish? How would one go about proving the fish were orginally stocked by the State?

This is a strange law and it would seem, a difficult one to enforce.

 

[QC]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

Definitely screwy, but it's good you have at least some control over your dominion. Interesting that you have to decide between killing all of them or letting somebody else kill some of them . . . Not sure what that means, but caused me to chuckle

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

Where I live there is a private gun club and a light bulb lit up in a members head one day many years ago and thought that it was a good idea for the state to stock trout in the private club pond so that the members could fish. They did not realize that once you get a fish stocking from the state that there has to be access to the pond and opened to the public.

 

[robert graham]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

Well, if they come on your property to fish and they get hurt in some way, then you could be liable, insurance-wise. So if they insist on fishing there you can by all rights require each and every person to sign, date and witness a form releasing you from any and all liability for any accidents or injury while on your property. Odds are, the red-neck fools will find another pond to fish in, because they won't like that form signing business. The form could also say,"no alcohol, tobacco products, loud music, profanity, etc.,etc.", you get the drift on this. Just an idea, but the form would be a very good idea from a legal standpoint. If they won't sign the form then call the law, because all you're trying to do is protect yourself from a lawsuit, I mean who could argue with that? This whole thing wouldn't set too well with me!

 

[angus63]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

I have some solutions, I think:

1) Is your property isolated enough for the local law to allow you to set up a shooting range? If so, set up the targets on the far side of the pond and practice while strangers choose to fish.

2) Let loose the hounds!!!!

3) Beware of alligator signs!


If it were me, cause I am the vengeful type, I would take the time to check out if the Commissioners have any ponds on their property, like hopefully a Koi pond in the front yard, and then I would have a large group of friends filleting Koi on the front yard. Something tells me a motion might be made to ammend the rule....

 

[jtmarten]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

+1 to what RG said.
Since you have the right to refuse service on a selective basis, refuse the three boneheads. Likely they're the only ones who will ever show up to fish, since apparently they filed the complaint.
Heck, put up a sign with requirements to fish:

Must be:
>/= 38D
</= 26
</= 36
In a thong and topless to fish here!

Make sure you put a reference to video surveillance too.

 

[avenger79]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

between your post and mine and many others of similar topic, i really wonder why we bother to buy land at all.

i know I won't do it again. between property tax, stupid rules, Insurance, assessments etc it is not nearly worth the headaches.

for your question i like the dog idea but you know if they feel threatened by the animal they would sue you for that and probably have your dog put down as well. i hate low lifes who think they should have access to anyone's land that they wish.

 

[jkust]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

The way I see it and the way things seem to be heading, id be suprised if you said they didn't have access to your private property. I love the entitlement mentality of the group that asked to fish your private pond. We have a pond that was stocked with goldfish when we bought our house. They are essentially carp so some got pretty big. A few times I'd catch people with a fishing pole out there. Unfortunatly one particular cold winter wiped them out. My few run in's with the local government regarding my private property rights has shown me they run all over you many times completely ignoring statutes.

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

I wonder if the origin of the catfish can be determined from genetic testing? Seriously.

My take: the state (or the complainants) should be the one who has to prove where the catfish came from.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

1) go to walmart and buy some goldfish/aka carp.
2) toss them in, watch them get eaten
3) you have now stocked your pond with commercially acquired fish, copy your walmart receipt and you are good to go!

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

Look into charging an access fee to cross your property..... and if so much as a gum wrapper or cigarette butt is dropped I do believe it falls under the littering law.

There was a place when I was in MO where a man had a private pond that he stocked with catfish .... they were his catfish. If you fished in his pond no license was required and you paid for your catfish by the pound as you left. He had the entire pond fenced and gated...... he ran a real nice business.

On a different note..... what if you Posted your land and said No Hunting ..... it is obvious the deer and turkey belong to the State but people can post their property ....... just tell the Conservation people the fish are independents and can leave on their own free will......

 

[DianneB]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

A stick of dynamite in the middle of the night would cure the problem!

 

[JustJason]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

2 Words....

Bear Traps

 

[avenger79]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

just do as above. go buy a bunch of fish and show the receipt to the conservies. then it's privately stocked.

 

[cedarjunki]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

id be going to court over it before killing it off!!!

 

[lowkee]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

Do offspring of fish count as state owned? Does the law only include the original fish? How long do catfish live?

I must say, I'd be fighting that tooth and nail, either by requiring the state to maintain the pond and all access points leading to it or just making it an absolute headache for the commission until they back off.

 

[boat1010]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

It would be a cold day in he77 when the government would tell me who could come on my land. I would fight it tooth and nail.

 

[Thajeffski]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

That's bogus, I would have them prove that it didn't come from a hatchery

 

[Outsider]

Re: Forced to allow trespassing on my property...

From what you're saying, the State considers all fish to be from State stocks unless one can prove otherwise. What does the Statute actually say? If it really does say that, and/or you don't want to fight City Hall, start draining the pond and invite the church down when it starts to get low. Once that's taken care of, poison the rest and follow ag agent guidelines for restock.

Alternately, you may have to allow public access, but that doesn't mean you have to allow access for their vehicles. How far from the road is the pond? Any thickets, swamps or bogs between the road and pond? If so, sounds like a logical access route to me ...