Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

[OUAngler]

Hey all,
I have a 88/150HP evinrude and the pinion gear will not pop up the shaft to engage the flywheel. The starter shaft turns the right direction and the pinion gear actually pops up after about ten ignition switch turns. It seems like the helical groves are just not staying lubricated. I have cleaned and re-lubricated it so many times. I have taken the nut of the top also to try to take the gear off completely to clean better but there is a lip on the starter shaft preventing that. Does any one know how to fix this annoying problem? Any advice will be appreciated.

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

The starter may not be turning fast enough. Check all the battery connections and make sure they are clean, tight and no corrosion. Have the battery load tested regardless if age.

 

[OUAngler]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

Battery shows 12 volts...connections are tight and clean. Problem unsolved.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

Have it load tested, 12 v doesn't mean a thing.

 

[OUAngler]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

Thanks for the advice..although I don't believe that it is a battery issue. The reason I say this is because the starter shaft has no problem spinning extremely fast instantly upon ignition, it's just that the pinion only wants to pop up approximately 1 out 10 times. When the gear does pop up the shaft spins no faster than it does when the gear doesn't pop up. Also when does actually pop up there is enough power to turn the flywheel fast enough to start the motor. I'm sorry if this isn't clear. It's just that this is such an annoying problem..BTW I have tried three different less than year old batteries. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Outsider]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

The bendix is malfunctioning. Have it fixed ...

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

90% of starter problems are bad connections. remove and clean both ends of the battery cables, so that they are shiney, also the cable from the solenoid to starter. check for nicks in the cables. and make sure the connectors are on the wire good. the cable tend to corrode from the inside out, if nicked, corroded wires, and connections, heat up and cause resistance to the follow of electricity, thus the starter doesn't get enough. you can also take jumper cable pos battery post to large post on starter. with a good connection, the engine should spin. then if the starter is good clean everything and retest. then trouble shoot solenoid. starters can be rebuit at a starter/alternator shop, much cheaper than a new one.

Be sure the cables area connected to the correct battery post. crossing cables, usually blows the rectifier, and can blow more.

also have the battery load tested at the auto parts store, free, i've had new batteries go bad

 

[OUAngler]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

Went and bought a brand new battery, had them load test it there to insure it was fine. Went home cleaned the connections with a wire brush and attached to brand new battery. I still have the same problem. NOT a battery issue. I'm taking the pinion off the shaft to try to clean it better. Seems like there is some grease or dirt that is keeping it from moving freely enough. I have tried to get it off before and there is a lip on the shaft, does anyone have an easy way of removing it...I have the manual and they have pictures of a few different ones and they show in one pic where it is removed..no idea how though.

 

[OUAngler]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

Went and bought a brand new battery, had them load test it there to insure it was fine. Went home cleaned the connections with a wire brush and attached to brand new battery. I still have the same problem. NOT a battery issue. I'm taking the pinion off the shaft to try to clean it better. Seems like there is some grease or dirt that is keeping it from moving freely enough. I have tried to get it off before and there is a lip on the shaft, does anyone have an easy way of removing it...I have the manual and they have pictures of a few different ones and they show in one pic where it is removed..no idea how though.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

It's not so much that the starter is spinning fast -- it has to spin up quickly, suddenly, because it's only just inertia that makes the bendix ride up its threaded shaft. That's why everbody's been harping on the battery.

If the bendix threads look clean, they probably are...mine haven't been "cleaned" in 30 years, just lubed with a little 3in1 oil ever now & then. I mean, it doesn't need to be cleaned to surgical standards. Maybe there's some kind of grease on there, or the threads are damaged or something? Have you tried compressed air?

It's difficult for us to imagine what's stopping it, not being able to see it directly.

Do try connecting the battery directly to the starter as suggested by tashasdad, to rule out a wiring issue.

Could be the starter is dragging. I've had good results just taking 'em apart, blowing out the carbon dust and reassembling, no new parts added.

Or, you may have one of those oddball rarely seen issues; if so there's a chance somebody around here has encountered it, what with the huge amount of collective experience on this forum.........

 

[hobiecat]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

I had this problem awhile back. Cleaned the connections... didn't help. Bought a new battery... didn't help. Replaced the starter... seemed to help for a little while, but started doing it again. Turned out that the battery cables were bad. Sounds like the same situation. If the battery cables are old, they can look fine on the outside and have a break on the inside (or mostly a break).

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

If you have a decent VOM, it's easy to check the cranking voltage drop for each cable. Your shop manual should give details, but generally you don't want more than a 0.3 VDC drop from connector to connector while cranking. More than that suggests a bad cable.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

Went and bought a brand new battery, had them load test it there to insure it was fine. Went home cleaned the connections with a wire brush and attached to brand new battery. I still have the same problem. NOT a battery issue. I'm taking the pinion off the shaft to try to clean it better. Seems like there is some grease or dirt that is keeping it from moving freely enough. I have tried to get it off before and there is a lip on the shaft, does anyone have an easy way of removing it...I have the manual and they have pictures of a few different ones and they show in one pic where it is removed..no idea how though.

..Three people advised you to have the battery load tested....I didn't see anyone advise you to buy a new battery and have THAT load tested... The purpose of the load test was to rule out a battery problem so that you could avoid changing parts for no reason...


Your description does not sound like the bendix is the problem.

At this point my advice would be to take the starter to a starter/alternator shop and have it tested....but don't just buy a new starter and then get that tested....


If the starter proves not to be at fault after testing, you can look at your cables as the next most likely problem...and there is already description of how to test that.

 

[OUAngler]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

Thanks all for the help. Hopefully with the information I have now from your advice will help me find this problem. BTW I did not purchase the battery for this problem only..I was in need of a new battery in the first place. But really thank you for the help!

 

[CaneCutter79]

Re: Starter works but pinion gear will not engage.

I have a similar problem but my bendix has gone bad and needs to be replaced because the bendix is "slipping". I can't describe it any better than that. The gear itself will turn on the starter shaft while engaging the flywheel but won't start the motor because the starter is turning fine but the bendix is slipping.

Anyway.....

When I took my starter off to investigate my issues, I had the same "bell" problem on the shaft as you did. Easy fix for that but you need to be carefull. Wrap a little masking tape around the threads on of the starter shaft and use a metal file to file down the bell shape on the end of the shaft. This was created from over-tightening or someone using an impact wrench to re-install the bendix gear shaft nut. Sometimes it takes an impact to get the nut loose and some put it back on with an impact which damages the shaft and creates the bell shape.


Now, you problem to me sounds like a similar problem I had and it has nothing to do with connections or batteries. Your shaft is dirty and the lube you are using is getting hot from the motor heat and collecting oil, dust, grime etc and turning to sludge on the shaft. You need a special lube for bendix gears. A good marine mechanic should have some you can use. A nice guy would charge you $2-5 for a squirt of the "good stuff" after you remove the bendix from the shaft and clean it.

While you're at it....

Take the starter apart and clean it. You can buy a can of electrical connection cleaner at your local autoparts store for about $7 and clean all the black powdery gunk that is inside the starter. Check your starter brushes and see if they look like they have plenty of life left in them, inspect the magnets, etc. Clean it all with the electric cleaner and put it back together. It's not really hard at all. Getting the brushes to go back into the slots is a bit of a trick but if you have two putty knifes, use them to hold down the brushes and have someone help you put the starter housing back on. It's really quite simple. I had my 8yr old son help me do it.

This gets your starter clean and free of the black powder, oil, dirt, etc. and you can use an old tooth brush to clean the bendix gear and shaft to make sure it's clean.

Here's the CRC electrical cleaner:
http://www.amazon.com/CRC-Industries-05018-Electric-Cleaner/dp/B001B2W8EC

According to this thread below, you should only use a "molly lube" which is a heavier weight lubricant vs. WD-40 or 3-N-One oil. I think I found the problem with my bendix. I used a light oil to re-apply on mine and that's what caused the bendix to start slipping.
http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?t=86050

Check with your mechanic and see if he has a special bendix lubricant. It should be thick and gooey, almost like maple syrup.

Hope this helps.