Lost forward and reverse in water

[capslock118]

Hi all,

1990 135hp v6 black max

So I was in the middle of taking the boat out of the water to repair the water impeller, the water was a bit choppy but not too bad. I was circling around going in forward and reverse to account for the current as I was waiting for the trailer to be put in the water, then all of a sudden I lost control of forward and reverse.

If I tried to push forward, the engine just revved with no sign of trying to catch. If I tried to go in reverse, well this was fairly impossible as the throttle was very hard to move past the neutral position when trying to go in reverse. It felt as though something was 'stuck'.

And again, trying to move the throttle to forward position yielded nothing but engine rev as though I was in 'throttle only' mode. Perhaps it's just as simple as the throttle being stuck in 'throttle only' mode some how.

The remote throttle does need replacing, but let's diagnose this first.

-What should I start looking at first?
-Should this be diagnosed before removing the lower unit for water impeller service?

 

[heen]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

My 90 hp did that and I found out it was my lower moter mounts were bad and stoped my shift lever from working

 

[capslock118]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

...it was my lower moter mounts...

Transom? or something else? Don't see how a transom would affect this so I must not be understanding what a moter mount is...

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Have you removed the engine cowling to see what the shift cable is doing?

 

[capslock118]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Well, let's talk about that.

I did open the coweling, I can see when i push forward and reverse that the...umm...parts that make the carb open moved; it was a bit hard to see though from the position i was standing.

I was able to move the throttle to the reverse position all the way with the engine off, so I am thinking something was jammed?

I don't know how to test to see if the gears work while on land - any suggestions?

 

[saumon]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

..maybe your clutch is slipping?







seriously, like ssheffer said, have a more closely look at what's happening inside the cowling when you move the throttle lever. There should be a black plastic bracket in wich fit the adjustment barrels of the two cables on the port side, toward the front. The upper cable is for the throttle and the lower is for the shifter. Thoses two barrels are held in place by a flipping retainer clip.

Maybe, on yours, the barrel of the lower cable have slipped out of the bracket or the cable end, that was tied with a nut to the shifter, come loose?

 

[ENSIGN]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Disconnect the shift cable at the engine and see if it fully retracts and extends when you move the shifter from F to R. The cable may be broken

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Loosen the retaining nut on the shifter cable retainer at the engine, rotate it left or right (its spring loaded) and lift the shifter cable of the shifter linkage.

Position the shifter linkage at the N on the bracket. Put the engine on the hose. Don't worry about the linkage being slightly in either forward or reverse, it will kick to neutral by itself or it will just start in gear. No problem as long as your not in the water and your feet aren't in the prop. Do keep the kiddies and the pets clear just in case.

Minding where your feet are located, start and run at an idle. Manually move the shift linkage from forward to reverse.

If the engine shifts normally and the prop spins in either direction as it should then the problem is either in your control or shift cable.

If it doesn't then the problem is either in the shifter arm, shifter rod or lower unit. Damage to the shifter arm or rod usually occur in conjuction with a failure in the lower unit.

This is a 15 minute procedure that will put you spot on the problem.

 

[capslock118]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

sschefer,

Thanks for the instructions. I read through the OEM service manual while following your instructions.

Let's recap:

I looked closer at the shift cable and had my girl move the throttle forward to watch it. Essentially, the throttle cable moves but the shifter does not.

The shift cable seems stuck in the reverse position, which is a bit odd to me because when I had the boat in the water it seemed like the engine would rev up but wouldnt move in either direction.

Anyways, I tried to move the shift cable back into neutral by hand but it doesnt seem to want to budge.


Further, just to the left of where you see the F-N-R something is cracked. It doesnt seem like it would cause the cable to not function, but it certainly does seem related and needs to be repaired. Its a part that the shift cable feeds into. Here is a photo of it:

What's the next steps here? I don't think I want to turn the engine on without first being able to move the shift cable myself.

Thanks for all of your input.

 

[keiths1313]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Take the shift cable loose from the motor try to shift into F-N-R. Try to shift the motor its self by hand. The prop should freespin in Neutral, Ratchet one way and lock into place one way in Foward.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Take the shift cable loose from the motor try to shift into F-N-R. Try to shift the motor its self by hand. The prop should freespin in Neutral, Ratchet one way and lock into place one way in Foward.

Agree.

That shift rail is pretty beefy and would not normally break. There's defintely something going on there and it's not normal.

Do what keith say's, my bet is you won't be able to move the shift lever at the motor but you will at the helm control when the cable is disconnected.

Just loosen the nut on top of the shift cable retainer, press down on the back and swivel it away from the cable. Then lift the cable off the pin.

 

[capslock118]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Hey folks,

I removed the nut and shift cable as you suggested, this is what I found:

The "actual" shaft, i think it's called a link rod, that moves the lower unit into gear works just fine. I was able move it quite easily by hand.

• When it was in reverse, prop forward was locked, reverse made a ratchet sound
• when it was neutral, prop forward and reverse moved freely
• when it was in forward, prop forward made a ratchet sound, reverse was locked

Now that the shift cable is free from the link rod, the shift cable is still not moving forward or backward when pushing the throttle at the helm.

I am learning as I go when it comes to engines and this stuff, but my guess is that the shift cable came loose at the remote control box at the helm.

What are your thoughts?

 

[ENSIGN]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

It either came loose at the box or like I said the cable core broke.

 

[Wingedwheel]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

If everything is working with the cable disconnected, my bet would be on the cable/control box as the culprit. Take the side cover off your control box and carefully move your lever to see what is going on. If the cable hasen;t slipped out of the lever-cam, I would think its the cable itself.

 

[lilbuddy1]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

It looks like the slide guide in the pic is cracked. Could this be the problem?

 

[capslock118]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Hi guys,

So I tried to fiddle around the throttle box but there are tight corners and I am not finding instructions online for my particular remote control box

It looks like the throttle lever sits outside of the boat wall while all of the mechanical gizmos are behind the wall. When I loosened up the screws that mounted the lever everything in the front and back of the wall loosened up. I'm sure I would be able to get the mechanical box out from behind the wall if I could just remove the throttle lever from it.


Here are some pictures:

How do I remove the throttle lever so that I can gain access to the box in the back?

It seems even if I wanted to replace the cable if it was broke I wouldnt be able to

It looks like the slide guide in the pic is cracked. Could this be the problem?

It is A problem but not THE problem; I'll be tackling that once I get the current issue solved.

 

[capslock118]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Any takers as to how I remove the throttle lever so that I can gain access to the box in the back?

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Lay down on the floor and look UP at the bottom of the control arm, you should be able to see the small threaded hole that has the allen headed set screw that clamps the arm to the shaft.

 

[capslock118]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Thanks charlie,

I did see that threaded hole but didnt see the alan screw...i'll check again.

 

[milehighboater]

Re: Lost forward and reverse in water

Just from your picture it looks like you will need a small 2 or 3 jaw puller for the throttle handle.